Confused about Supervision Policy

[vcrew66]

I am reading through the latest online version of the Guide to Safe Scouting regarding adult supervision during Venturing activities, and I am still confused. The GSS reads, "There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required." (page 3 of the online version).

 

When is adult supervision during a crew/patrol activity not required, and what defines a crew/patrol activity as being such?

 

[Bob White]

The policy does not mention Crews, it only says Patrol activities. Crews and Patrols are not the same. A Patrol is a unique group in Scouting. Crews are Chartered units, Patrols are not.

 

When is adult supervision required for crew activities? According to the BSA it is always required.

 

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

Patrol activities are activities conducted by one and only one patrol. With SM approval, patrols can do things by themselves such as hike, camp, or even go to the latrine. However, if two patrols want to do something together, that becomes a troop activity and things get complicated.

 

I guess that adult supervision is needed for two patrols in case the PLs get into a fight.

 

 

[vcrew66]

Is adult supervision always required for all Venturing activities, including just day service projects? I've been told they can meet and carry out certain activities on their own. ???

[NJCubScouter]

"There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required."

 

If there are a few, and "patrol activities" is one of them, what are the others?

[Bob White]

The only ones I know of are all Patrol related. Patrol meetings, Patrol day activities, Patrol short term overnight camping.

[Stosh]

Unless all the Venturing members are 18+ I wouldn't push the issue. Crews need supervision differently than troops because of their co-ed status. Not only is two-deep leadership required but the leadership must be co-ed if the crew in attendance is co-ed.

 

Just think of it as apples and oranges... or maybe birds and bees.

 

Stosh

[Kahuna]

Not all crews or ships are coed. What about an all male Sea Scout crew?

[Buffalo Skipper]

Kahuna wrote:"Not all crews or ships are coed. What about an all male Sea Scout crew?"

Then there is no need for co-ed leadership, but all other guidelines of supervisionapply. As an example, do you really want your ship of 14-20 year olds taking out your 40' cabin cruiser or 35' sailboat for a day trip or weekendanchor-outwithout adult supervision? Or what about a work project on your almost done electrical system?

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

So what we are saying is a Boy Scout Troop can have a patrol of 12-17 year old boys out on a campout, probably approved by the scoutmaster of course without adults but an all male Venturing Crew comprised of 14-20 year olds need two adults. Sea Scout or otherwise.

 

 

[Eamonn]

I don't know, but could this be because the activities that a Crew can /could do is a far wider range than what a normal ?? Patrol might do at a Patrol camp.

As I say I'm only guessing!

Ea.

[Bob White]

Close OGE. Your use of the word "probably" is incorrect. For a Patrol to have an outing or overnighter without aduilt supoervision they MUST have the Scoutmasters permission. There is no probable about it. As far as a Ship or a Ship's crew (the equivalent of a patrol in a troop) having an outing or activity without adult supervision and having it be a Scout activity. According to the BSA you are correct, that would be prohibited.

 

I know in our case for safety reasons and, at the direction of the charter organization, there must be 2 adults present for the scouts to take out any boat or boats.

 

This is not an issue with the scouts as the leaders keep a fairly healthy distance from the scouts most of the time. We know where they are and they know where we are. Plus we have radios to keep in contact.

 

Kudu would be pleased to know that we sometimes camp more than 100 yards from where the scouts are on the boats.

 

Having adults present does not mean having the adults on top of every activity.

[Kahuna]

Buffalo Skipper writes: Then there is no need for co-ed leadership, but all other guidelines of supervision apply. As an example, do you really want your ship of 14-20 year olds taking out your 40' cabin cruiser or 35' sailboat for a day trip or weekend anchor-out without adult supervision? Or what about a work project on your almost done electrical system?

Yeah, exactly. Just as you wouldn't probably let a patrol of first year Scouts go on a ten-day Appalachian Trail adventure. But Sea Scouts could go camping or visit a maritime museum. Just G2SS and common sense apply.

[Kahuna]

BW writes: As far as a Ship or a Ship's crew (the equivalent of a patrol in a troop) having an outing or activity without adult supervision and having it be a Scout activity. According to the BSA you are correct, that would be prohibited.

And can you show us exactly where that is written?

[shortridge]

That is an incredibly poorly written statement in the G2SS. NJCubScouter's question hits the nail right on the head.

 

The very next sentence, however, states: "Coed overnight activities require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA." (http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss01.aspx#c)

 

A reasonable person could interpret that to mean that coed daytime activities, such as a day hike or trip, do not require both male and female adult leaders (or even adult leaders, period).

 

If a new Scout patrol of 11-year-olds on their way to First Class can go off on a day hike on their own with the Scoutmaster's permission, it's counterintuitive to think that a crew of 14+ year-olds would not be allowed to do the same thing. (Alas, counterintuitive doesn't always mean it's OK by the BSA.)

 

General question: If the members wished it, couldn't a large crew be split up into smaller patrols or other equivalent groups (call them corps, platoons, teams, or whatever you wish)?