Whats in a Name

[OldGreyEagle]

"Most people who have been involved with Venturing more then a year or so call them Roundtables, because calling them Forums is a very recent change..."

 

I agree with the above, and because Venturing is new and a lot of people not in Venturing are aware if its terms and vocabulary and things have changed quite often.

 

So perhaps it would behoove us all not to land with both feet on someone who posts questions about a Venture Crew, or Venturing Scouts or otherwise mangle the Venturing lexicon, I dont think its done with malice so no malice ought be returned

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Because there are those who find it necessary to jump all over people who misuse the terminology, I simply don't reference it anymore. I talk about my troop and my crew. Those around me are quite remarkable in that they can quickly figure out I'm talking about a BOY SCOUT troop and a VENTURING crew. There are even those who have been able to take it one step further and intuitively know that when I use the term pack I'm referring to a CUB SCOUT pack.

 

We don't have forums, they are roundtables, so that's easy enough to avoid talking about. If there are those who find it necessary to correct my terminology, I simply excuse myself and find another table to sit at where the conversation is a little more cordial.

 

And even if I do misspeak and say Venture Crew, I find it remarkable that those who get upset still manage to understand what I am referring to. Go figure.

 

Stosh

[Lisabob]

While we're having this conversation, I'm going to ask a slightly tangential question. Just how long does the Venturing program need to exist before it isn't "new" any more? It has been around what, 10, 15 years now?

 

I'm not picking on you OGE. I find that most people in scouting know nothing or next to nothing about Venturing. I find that the few who at least have heard of it, confuse it with venture patrols, and usually not in a positive way either. I find that many councils (my own included) do a rather poor job of supporting Venturing as a program, despite the fact that it is probably the single biggest untapped market out there. I am finding that changing this dynamic is really tough. And I find that the excuse (or justification, if you prefer) is often that hey, venturing is new!

 

Are we ever gonna get the wagon rolling here?(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[OldGreyEagle]

hey Lisabob, I hear you. This year, 2008, is Venturing's 10th anniversary. That fact that you werent too sure if it had been around 10 or 15 years speaks volumes, especially since you recently took Wood Badge and still werent too sure.

 

I am not sure how long a program stays "new", I know the Venturing Leader Manual is BSA publication 34655E with a new version due out this fall I hear. So, in 10 years we have had 5 versions and possibly a 6th.

 

I don't know what was done in other Councils, but I can tell you that Venturing was poorly rolled out here. It was presented, a few years after it began, as a loosy goosey do anything you wanted sorta Co-ed program. It was presented as a program that didnt have the "mickey mouse" rules that Boy Scouts have and attracted leaders who wanted to do their own thing away from what was seen as the "heavy handed bureaucracy" of council (read for the rules). So, crews sprang up, and died because what some leaders thought kids would want to do, wasnt that much fun, to the kids. Then, as Council started to say things to the leaders like "Guide to Safe Scouting" and having Commissioners and Forums and a lot of adults left, because they said Venturing was getting as 'mickey mouse" as Boy scouts. I interpret that as saying, "they want us to follow the program" but I digress

 

So, how "new" is Venturing? The BSA started in 1910. I wonder how many Troops sprang up in 1910-1911 and were vibrant organizations and were gone by 1920? Do any of the historians know? I am sure the BSA showed growth, more units this year than last year, but how many troops have continuity? Always in existence? I know people in Venturing (like me) have pushed for National Venturing event. When was the First National Jamboree scheduled? I think in reltive terms Venturing is still new, it will take awhile to develop the leadership and continuity that is the foundation of Boy Scouts.

 

I am sure if you took a bunch of adults in 1920 marking the end of 10 years of scouting, there would be many who would question its future, how can we keep this thing going. Lucky for us, there were enough who thought enough of the program to keep it moving. I see Venturing the same way. We need to develop the base of Volunteers

[John-in-KC]

Venturing to me is the latest incarnation of the older Scout program. So far, it seems to be working pretty well.

 

During my week at PTC, I got to meet a wonderful young lady: Last year she had been the Western Region President of the Venturing Officers Association. She was serving on staff as a backcountry ranger (guide for base camp and 1st couple of trail days). She has her Silver, the Venturing Leadership Award, and is going to make a great mark in this world.

 

I look at the Venturers in my own Crew. Man and woman alike, they're maturing, confident, and capable of many things. Several of them are going off to University this fall; but Scouting is in their hearts and their blood

[Bob White]

When you consider that the scouts who are aging out of Venturing this year, were eligible to join when the program was only 3 years old, you realize it is still a very young program. Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts are mult-generational where as Venturing is not.

 

How long will it remain a "new" program. I think that feeling will remain at least another 10 to 15 years. Once it has second generation members I think that feeling will go away.

 

Think about how many people referred to the current uniform as the "new uniform" for almost 25 years.

[emb021]

I'm with John. While Venturing is 10 years old, the roots of the program go back to the 1920/30s. Further when you factor in Sea Scouts. When it was rolled out in 1998, a good chunk of it was just the previous Exploring program with a few additions (revamped advancement program, use of Roundtables & Commissioners brought back, use of charcoal gray pants/shorts).

 

In my mind, Venturing is only 'new' to people who were aware ONLY of their program, whether Cub Scouting or Boy Scouting, and are totally ignorant of the full spectrum of scouting. (h*ll, I was shocked recently that a coworker who is a scouter had never heard of Philmont, after being a BS leader for several years).

 

While I don't disagree that some of our terms can be confusing, I do think it important the people DO use the terms correctly. Pointing this out to people does NOT automatically constitue 'jumping' on them. I fail to see how a reminder at the end of a post of "please use Venturing and not Venture" is 'jumping' on someone. An occasional slip of the tongue/typewriter is one thing. To constently use the wrong terms, or worse use them in printed materials (brochures, flyers, cards, etc), it different.

 

It DOES cause confusion. We STILL deal with people who think a Venture Patrol is just 'Venturing in a troop' and all that that means because of the similiar terms.

[John-in-KC]

Certainly the Explorer Post I was in 1971 or so to 1974 had many of the same aspects as Venturing Crews now.

 

Of course, folks here might be shocked that we chose blue jeans for our trousers and necktie of choice for our neckties with our dark green shirts.

[kb6jra]

John in KC wrote: "During my week at PTC, I got to meet a wonderful young lady: Last year she had been the Western Region President of the Venturing Officers Association. She was serving on staff as a backcountry ranger (guide for base camp and 1st couple of trail days). She has her Silver, the Venturing Leadership Award, and is going to make a great mark in this world. "

 

Are you talking about Robyn Knoll? She's awesome isn't she. She was an associate advisor to my son's World Jamboree Venture Crew and she was just great. She is quite a driven and focused young lady.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Indeed I am. She's also a Lutheran, and came to our annual meeting.

[Eamonn]

I was a Venture Scout.

That's what we were back then in the UK.

Scouts (note not Boy Scouts. This was before they went coed.) Aged out at 16, so it was join the Venture Unit (That's what the group was called) or leave. Cub Scouts replaced Wolf Cubs.

Scouts replaced Boy Scouts. Senior Scouts had long gone and Venture Scouts replaced Rovers.

More than one Venture Scout was called.... Venture Scouts! (Yes sometimes even the Brits make life easy!!)

From the start Venture Scouting was coed.

Looking back -They really were happy days.

Eamonn.

(Much of that has since changed)

[emb021]

Well, to build on what Eamonn stated.

 

Here in the US, when we started the various other programs, they were:

 

* Rover Scouts

* Sea Scouts

* Air Scouts

* Explorer Scouts

* Senior Scouts

* Cub Scouts

 

All building off that 'scout' name.

 

In 1949, it was decided that Senior Scouts became Explorers, with Air Scouts and Sea Scouts becoming Air Explorers and Sea Explorers. The program became Exploring in 1959, so Post were to be called "Exploring Posts", not "Explorer Posts" (tho that term is historically correct, so so would use it), which is kind of a basis for "Venturing", with that -ING end, plus "Venturing Crews" and not "Venturer Crews".

 

I know that in the 1970s or so, National was pretty clear that Explorers were NOT to be referred to as "Explorer Scouts". For good or bad, they were trying to make it clear that Explorers were NOT scouts, and create a separate between Exploring and the rest of the BSA (Cub & Boy Scouts).

 

What makes it more messy was National changing the in-troop older boy program from "Leadership Corps" to "Venture" in 1989. So that tied up that term. So it didn't help things when they rolled out Venturing to replace Exploring in 1998, with the close terms. I've heard the term "Venture Scouts" used by some BSA people for both Venturers and members of Venture Patrols. National is quite clear in the "Language of Scouting" that the term "Venture Scout" is NOT to be used.

 

Of course, overseas, many scout associations call their older youth programs Venture or Venturing.

 

What I find really funnny, is that very recently, the UK Scout Association renamed Venture Scouts to.... Explorer Scouts!

 

[John-in-KC]

emb....

 

You just caused two songs to start running through my head

 

All around the Mulberry Bush...

 

This is the Song that Never Ends...