OldGreyEagle Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 See, now I have always used the Guide to Safe Scouting when the issue of Co-Ed leadership came up and this is from the Guide to Safe Scouting page 3 "...Coed overnight activities require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA." As a result, I have been on many over-night Co-Ed Venturing events with a female over 21 who was not a registered leader in the Crew as the Guide to Safe Scouting indicated that only one of the adults need be a registered member of the BSA. Myself and usually 2-3 other males rounded out the adult corp. When the issue came up about Coed activties and Venturing I went to the Guide to Safe Scouting, saw the above and we moved on, I never looked in the Venturing Leader Manual which talks about the necessity of having both male and female adult leaders but does not mention BSA registration. I tend to go with the Guide to Safe Scouting but am open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be_Prepared Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 The Guide to Safe Scouting States: "Coed overnight activities require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA." For those that think otherwise - one often has to look at the history of a rule to understand it. Early versions of the Guide to Safe Scouting read: "Coed overnight activities require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older." Often, the biggest barrier to Venture Crews is finding a 21 or older female to attend. This clause was added ( only one of whom must be registered ) so that coed Venture crews could camp without having to find a female registered leader - just a 21 or older female will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 An adult scout leader is a registered member of the BS. The Venturing Leader Training syllabus and the Venturing Leader Handbook both say that "Male and female adult leaders" for coed overnight activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 So is the G2SS wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Neither is wrong, you're right either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 I don't want to argue as much as get it right. I have "Venturing Leader Specific Training", version 33491D which is the syllabus I follow when I do Venturing Training in the District I serve. In Session Two, titled "Understanding and Protecting Youth" there is a section titled "Protecting Our Youth", its Session 2, Slide 7. The Syllabus has a grey box which tells the instructor what to do, and it says to have copies of the Guide to Safe Scouting on hand and tells the Instructor that the following portions of the Guide to Safe Scouting need to be addressed: Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings Safe Swim Defense Safety Afloat Scuba Camping Guns and Firearms Cave Exploring Climbing and Rappeling Unauthorized and Restricted Activities Transportation Tour Permits I do not see a reference anywhere else in the materials which comment on the adult leadership requirements for a Coed Overnight Venturing Activity. If I am not using the proper materials I need to know. My Venturing Professinal Advisor was the one who furnished me with the materials. Has a new syllabus been published? What is its number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWScouter Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Is it not like the rest of the BSA, the non-registered adult must be a parent or guardian of one of the youth members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 NWScouter, I have never heard that the other adult had to be a parent or guardian of a youth. Where did you hear that? I am not saying its wrong, only that I have never seen or heard that before. But that doesnt mean it isnt so, just means I missed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYScouter Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 The online version of the guide to safe scouting is at: http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss01.aspx look under I. Youth Protection & Adult Leadership Barriers to Abuse Within Scouting The BSA has adopted the following policies to provide additional security for our members. These policies are primarily for the protection of our youth members; however, they also serve to protect our adult leaders from false accusations of abuse. Note: Bold type denotes rules and policies. Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities. (This message has been edited by CNYScouter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 Holy Inconsistency Batman!!! Under Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings it says: Two-deep leadership: Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required. Coed overnight activities require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA So, on page one it says you need two registered leaders for an outing or a registered leader and a parent of one of the participants but then when talking about Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings, the parent thing is not mentioned. WoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWScouter Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Since a non-registered adult is one that has not been vetted, I would think that allowing a non-parent or guardian on an outing is a loop hole that you drive a truck through in youth protection. When I was a Scoutmaster we made uncles, moms boyfriend, older brother all register before we let them go specially on overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 CNY Your quote is out of context for the discussion since it does not relate to coed overnight activities. There is a different standard for coed overnights than for other scouting activities. For the other posters, Who is covered by BSA liability protection? answer: Registered adult leaders. Do you feel this should considered when asking a unregistered adult to be personally responsible for the scouts. Keep in mind that only on coed overnight activities does the BSA say a registered adult must be "housed with and personally responsible for the (insert Male or Female) participants". If they are to be responsible for the participants should they not be registered?(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASM59 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 OK, I'm confused on a point that BW just mentioned. If the Adult male is responsible for and must be housed with the male youth participants and the adult female is likewise to be housed with and responsible for the female youth members; does that mean that there is not an expectation for "two-deep" during the night? Maybe I misunderstand, but "housed with" to me means in the same facility; such as guys cabin and gals cabin or something similar... Of course it could also mean my adult tent is pitched on the same side of the campground as the male youth tents... ASM59(This message has been edited by ASM59) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be_Prepared Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Where, in the Guide to Safe Scouting, does it state: "a registered adult must be "housed with and personally responsible for the (insert Male or Female) participants" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Sorry Be_prepared, I mentioned the reference in my earlier post. Venturing Leader Handbook Page 330 under Coed Overnight Activities ASM59 do not confuse two-deep leadership with no one-on-one contact. A single adult is allowed to be with multiple youth, just not one-on-one. (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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