Venturing Youth Protection

[click23]

I spun this off because I got the OA part of the example claified, but I am still confused even after taking online training. Does Venturing treat over 18 "youth" the same way that the OA treats them as far as youth protection is concerned:

 

So individuals at OA activities really fit into one of three categories:

 

-Those under 18, who are youth for both OA events and BSA policies

-Those 18 to 20, who are youth for OA events, but are adults for BSA policies

-Those 21 and older, who are adults for both OA events and BSA policies -From the national OA website.

 

If Venturing treats them the same, the you would have:

-Males under 18

-Females under 18

-Male youth over 18

-Female youth over 18

-Male leaders

-Female leaders

 

 

But the training made no mention of this, and it appeared that Venturing is set up like this:

 

-Male youth

-Female Youth

-Male leaders

-Female leaders.

 

 

I have search Nationals website and nothing really confirms either of these examples, so I am at a loss.

[Stosh]

I just went around with our council on this issue. Our crew is heading out east for a big event and with hotel room cheaper if everyone bunks up, our council has informed us that it is not proper for 18-20 year-olds to be bunking with adults, they are to bunk with the under 18 year-olds. 20 year-old Venturing members are considered youth for youth protection purposes, they bunk with the 14 year-olds.

 

Stosh

Advisor, VC-2

[Beavah]

Yah, there is just no rhyme nor reason to this stuff, eh? The BSA gets caught because it's just impossible to make a single policy that works intelligently for all the circumstances. I think each unit has to make the call based on what makes sense for them, or to exercise some pro-active judgment.

 

Puttin' a 20 year old legal adult in a room with a 14-year-old minor instead of a 21-year-old coworker/classmate is one of those nonsensical things that should just never be done.

 

Puttin' an 18 year old high school senior in a room with his 17 year old senior classmate is perfectly sensible.

 

But da line I would try to honor more strongly is the legal age of majority/off to college line, eh? That's the one that has the strongest "outside of scouting" implications in terms of cultural expectations. We treat college students as adults, and high school students as kids.

 

That havin' been said, as Neil and jblake describe, Venturing makes a single age cutoff at age 21, if you're lookin' for at least a loose "policy answer." Anyone below is a youth, anyone equal to or above is an adult.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[click23]

I think if I was a Venturing leader, that I would have to go by the OA example and have a catgory of youth over 18. Just to cover my rear, if anything bad was to happen, from the parents [civil lawsuits] and the state [criminal charges].

[Beavah]

Practically speakin', I wonder how many crews really have a mix of members across the high school/college/work line?

 

Da ones I know are either mostly high schoolers or mostly college folks. I think that's what makes it impossible to write a consistent policy. We're talkin' about two different groups.

 

Active ships might be the most likely to mix, but maybe not even then.

 

Again, I think from a practical and legal perspective, the high school/college line is the appropriate one to draw. Courts aren't gonna find you odd for allowing 18-year-olds to shower with 15-year-olds when every high school team in the nation does it. And no court is going to find anything inappropriate about a 21 year old dating a 20 year old who is in da same class in college, even if one is the leader of an extracurricular activity and one is a regular member (since that, too, happens all the time). But everybody is gonna look at mixing college and high school kids as being somethin' to raise eyebrows at.

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Beavah, Just to be clear, this is item 10 from the Boy Scouts of America Youth Protection Guidelines for Adult Venturing Leaders Training Guide

 

10. The roles of volunteer adult leaders in the Venturing program require that clear boundaries be established between adult leaders and youth members. For this reason, fraternization the formation of peer-based, social relationships between adult and youth members is not permitted. This prohibition extends to Venturing crewmembers who

register as adults after their twenty-first birthday.

 

So, its ok to ignore this point? I am not sure what you meant in your post

[Stosh]

If a young couple is involved with a Crew and the wife is 20 years old and the husband is 21, they cannot bunk up. She would need to register as a youth and the husband as an adult.

 

Go figure.

 

Stosh

[click23]

IF they are married, and one is over 21 and one under 21, then only one of them can be a member of the crew.

 

"fraternization the formation of peer-based, social relationships between adult and youth

members is not permitted"(This message has been edited by click23)

[Gold Winger]

"If a young couple is involved with a Crew and the wife is 20 years old and the husband is 21, they cannot bunk up. She would need to register as a youth and the husband as an adult."

 

I read once that a married Venturer even if youth aged is considered an adult.

[Beavah]

Nah, folks, yeh are gettin' way too silly, eh? We had this conversation before about married and engaged couples, which was eventually resolved by the head of the Venturing Division:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=149435&p=1

 

The folks in the BSA aren't stupid. They're just caught in a situation where it's impossible to write a single policy that covers all bases. So that means we need to use da brains God spent a lot of time and effort giving us.

 

OGE, my sentence was "no court is going to find..." which was a response to click's concern, eh? I wasn't commentin' on BSA guidelines. From a non-BSA legal perspective, there just isn't an issue with a 21-year-old dating a 20-year old. To call it a "youth protection" issue is just to be dishonest.

 

Now the BSA can redefine the terms "adult" and "youth" for its own membership classes, eh? Or call 'em "sprouts" and "gardners" members if they want. Those are just names for membership categories. Which unfortunately confuses people. It doesn't change how the rest of the world views adults and youth.

 

That leaves us some big traps... like married couples or friends in an all-college-aged crew run by the Newmann Center on one side. Or, on da other side, a 20-year-old Venturing "youth member" dating a 14-year-old Venturing "youth member" ain't OK, even though da BSA doesn't have any rules about it. Because in the world, that's a 20-year-old adult dating a juvenile under the age of consent, no matter what da BSA's membership categories are.

 

It's when we hit those "traps" where a general policy can't be made to fit all the possible realities that we have to use our judgment.

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Its always fun when you get told to ignore what's printed. Then again this is where the concept of trust comes in, and how to discuss this topic with someone not privy to these posts. Perhaps its time to take the Star Federation approach and not worry about interpersonal relationships that are legal.

[emb021]

"IF they are married, and one is over 21 and one under 21, then only one of them can be a member of the crew. "

 

NOT TRUE.

 

I had a face to face conversation with Bill Evans, the #2 guy of the Venturing division several years back about this topic, since it was one that had recently been a big discussion on-line.

 

Marriage trumps the issue of 'fraternization'. If they are married, both can be involved. The issue of fraternization applies ONLY to those not married.

 

 

[Beavah]

Its always fun when you get told to ignore what's printed.

 

Not ignore what's printed, eh? Just understand what's printed, and why. Like it's black-letter "policy" in G2SS that the beds of trucks or trailers must never be used for carrying passengers.... except that parade floats where passengers are in a truck bed or trailer are OK.

 

Da BSA does its best (as a fairly small organization in terms of printed material) at providing some straightforward and intelligent guidance that applies fairly generally. Da application of such general guidance to odd specific cases is left as an exercise for da reader.

 

BTW, what's a Star Federation? My google got me Federation Stars (on the Aussie national flag), several different Star Trek RPG and fan clubs, an association for Cheer and Dance teams (All-Star Federation...), and a mess of different entries about various fictional Star Federations that are part of MMO games. Has OGE become a video game addict?

 

Beavah

 

[click23]

Well, I guess my original question has been answered. BSA views all Venturing youth the same, but at the same time the leaders should use some common sense when dealing with sleeping arrangements, showers, etc.

 

emb021,

 

I have no doubt you had said conversation, but with people on here and irl spouting BSA rules and regulations without being able to back them up, I would prefer to see it in an official BSA publication. It might be out there, I will take a look through the Venturing Leaders Handbook tonight.

 

 

[ScoutOne]

Bottom line: Anyone under 18 is considered a "youth" in terms of "Youth Protection".

 

In Venturing and OA, the term "Youth" is only for the purposes of delivering the program. There are additional guidelines established for the purpose of these programs. For example, a leader should not be fraternizing or establishing close relationships with youth. (This is for obvious reasons and the fact the individual will no longer be regarded in status as an adult leader by the youth participants.)

 

For the purpose of participation in programs, a participant 18 to 20 may be considered either a youth or adult. For example, an 18-year-old "youth" participant may be the second 18 and over adult on a trip.

 

While genders must be separated for sleeping/dressing purposes, both adults and youth of the same gender may share a sleeping area (in a single room or dormitory type setting). However, there must be accommodation for privacy for sleeping and dressing (such as a blanket or sheet). ("Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or sheet walls in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area.")

 

Participants under the age of 18 should never share a tent with someone over 18. The only exception would be if there is a legally recognized marriage or the adult is the legal guardian.