Venture crew going to NYLT (female venturers)

[kahits]

I was just told by the SM for this summers NYLT that girls from crews could attend. Have any of you ever heard of that. I told him to confirm that, but the crew that I started could certainly benefit from an experience such as this, even if it's more of a troop type of training structure.

[John-in-KC]

Why not?

 

As long as the NYLT staff develops the housing plan to conform to Venturing guidelines. That to me seems to be the longest technical pole in the tent. Of course, mixing 13 year old BOYS with 16 and 17 year old GIRLS may cause some inappropriate ragining hormones as well, especially among the boys.

 

Now, that said, is there a reason the Council isn't willing to do some of the VENTURING leader development curricula? What's going on with your Council VOA? That the Council is allowing combined programs implies, to me, that program support of Venturing is an afterthought.

[kahits]

Thanks, John.

 

Yes, it would be easy to say that our Council is not able to provide the kinds of support for the crews in our area, probably because of the small number of crews that exist in our 3 districts in the metro area. Having done the VLSC when I was Crew Advisor, I did what I could to bring as much traiing to the unit, but now that I am no longer the lead advisor, I can see that is not going to be enough. I brought up the idea of them attending NYLT, more as an after thought, with me sending boys from my son's troop, but now that I have done some google searches, I can see several councils that are offering NYLT for Venture crews, as well as functioning VOC's. I guess you have to work with what you have.

[emb021]

I have heard this here and there, but have to wonder what the value of it is.

 

Yes, there is a problem with housing, but the main problem I see is that NYLT is really geared to troop operations. A Venturer would thus be very confused by being organized into patrols and troop when these things are not done in Venturing Crews.

 

Its not a matter of 'denying Venturers the leadership training of NYLT', but one that's a little more complex. In my long experience with leadership development training, I see 2 types of training. One is more 'theoretical', where we explain concepts of leadership, with the hope/expectation that the trainees would thus be able to figure out how to use these concepts in their leadership job. The other type is more job-oriented, where we take those who are presidents to one side and explain how that job works, we take those who are vice-presidents to one side and do the same, and so on with secretaries, treasurers, etc. (or replace those terms with SPL, PL, Scribe, etc). Too often here they learn the mechanics of the job, but miss out on the leadership concepts.

 

Thus, my concern with having Venturers attend NYLT is that since the course is geared to the model of a Boy Scout Troop that Venturers won't be able to fit what they learned there into the model of a Venturing Crew.

 

Personally, I prefer that Venturers attend the courses we have developed for them: VLSC, Kodiak, and Kodiak-X.

[kahits]

Thank you, Emb...

 

In order for this to be worthwhile, it will require some discussion with the NYLT SM, but there is no Kodiak available, at least not in the council. There is talk about putting one on, but there are no indications it is close to being in the works. I have been told that NYLT is very much like the new WB, which is a more general training and not as troop specific as the old WB or JLT was. If this is true, it is more a general leadership (I have heard it more described as management) training then the older versions it replaced.

 

I would be curious to see if it might be possible to have them establish a venture patrol at NYLT, if we can combine several crew's worth of officers, along with my two boys who are leaving the troop to possibly join the one crew. The VLSC can certainly reinforce that, and they do need to run thru that training, whether or not they are able to make the time commitment to do this. I think these kids are old enough to figure out the differences between the two programs, but just getting them together for something that is not just another campout or crew meeting, to work on developing their leadership skills, is more the issue. Right now there is nothing on the horizon that can support that, and these HS Freshmen and Sophomores are not getting any younger. I wish there was more support for Venturing in the council, but for now, they are lucky just to have a crew to be active with, and perhaps someday it will change, starting with that Council wide Kodiak, but it isn't happening this summmer, and NYLT is.

[John-in-KC]

kahits,

 

A better option might be to ask your SE to contact his Area or Region and see who nearby was doing Venturing advanced youth leader training at the Council level.

 

If he starts to see that he's going to lose income, because folks are going elsewhere, he might get his program guy into gear...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[emb021]

You don't need to wait for your council to organize Kodiak. This is something that can be done within a crew (or between several crews). I would, however, recommend that whoever wants to run a Kodiak course that they get themselves to one of the regional Kodiak CDC course to get properly trained.

 

[emb021]

"I have been told that NYLT is very much like the new WB, which is a more general training and not as troop specific as the old WB or JLT was. If this is true, it is more a general leadership (I have heard it more described as management) training then the older versions it replaced."

 

Having gone thru both the new and old WB, that the new WB course IS still taught in the framework of a Boy Scout Troop. AFAIK, NYLT is still organized like a Boy Scout troop. As noted, this can be confusing for a Venturer who does not understand patrols and the like when it comes to trying to apply the leadership concepts learned within their Crew.

 

 

[captainron14]

 

 

"a venture patrol at NYLT"?

A Venture patrol is very different from a Venturing Crew.

The Venture Patrol is just a patrol of older Boy Scouts for High Adventure. For Boy Scouts, meaning, no girls. It is run totaly different than a crew.

I would pursue a Kodiac course, if I were you, it would be more valuable to Venturers.

[Bob White]

 

"a venture patrol at NYLT"?

 

Captainron, where did your quote come from. I cannot find where any poster has said it or mentioned a venture patrol?

[captainron14]

Bob White says:

>>>"Captainron, where did your quote come from. I cannot find where any poster has said it or mentioned a venture patrol?">>"I would be curious to see if it might be possible to have them establish a venture patrol at NYLT, if we can combine several crew's worth of officers, along with my two boys who are leaving the troop to possibly join the one crew."

[emb021]

"As you know a Venture Patrol has nothing to do with VENTURING.

Am I misunderstanding something? "

 

Nope, you're not.

 

If someone is suggesting that the Venturers that might attend NYLT be organized into a 'Venture Patrol', they really misunderstand how these programs work, and would confuse the youth. Its really important in many councils to get it into peoples heads that venture patrols have nothing to do with Venturing. You get people saying stuff like 'a venture patrol is just Venturing in a troop' or thinking that venture patrols can wear the green Venturing uniform shirt. So doing this (organizing Venturers into a Venture Patrol @ NYLT) would really undermine what we're trying to do to get people to understand these programs that are very different.

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

It seems like a lot of work (having Ventureres at NYLT) to make them fit in when a VLSC (Venturing Leadership Skills Course) can be put on by a couple of adults and youth who are willing to read a book and plan ahead, sorta like NYLT and then voila, you have a Venturing Program designed for Venturers. Anything else is sticking the square peg in the round hole, it can be done, but the results are never quite what they should/could be

[John-in-KC]

I endorse everything emb021 has said.

 

Over and above what he said, our original writer was looking at a co-educational issue. A VENTURE PATROL is a BOY SCOUT PROGRAM DIVISION activity, and is by its nature single gender.

 

kahits, emb021 had the best idea a few posts back: If you, with other crews, can organize a Council Kodiak course, that's the first best solution. If you can piggyback on a neighboring Council Kodiak (or and Area Kodiak) as a training cluster, that's a second best solution.

 

Now, it's time for some feedback (it's a gift after all )... What are your downstream thoughts as we've fed ideas to you?

[Bob White]

Sorry Capt. I glazed right over that.

 

You are correct.

BW