crew vs. post

[Lisabob]

Aside from the part of the program that members "count" towards for district and council membership purposes, for all practical intents, what is the difference between a post and a crew? This question has come up because we have a couple of fire and police chiefs who are potentially interested in helping to start up one or the other and at least one of them is adamant that it should be a post. I am not sure why, as it seems that a crew could do pretty much anything a post could do. But this isn't an area I know a whole lot about so I'd like to pick your collective brains. What say you? What are there advantages and disadvantages to starting up a unit under one vs. the other?

[OldGreyEagle]

As I understand it, a Post is part of the Learning for Life program. Posts are vocational in nature, such as a Police Post, a Firehouse Post, a Post that is sponsored by a newspaper based on Journalism, or a healthcare one sponsored by a Hospital. Because they are part of Learning for Life, and the Learning for Life Program does not have the same membership requirements that BSA program do. Venturing Crews are part of the BSA and have the same requirement for membership as a Boy Scout Troop.

[Beavah]

Yah, what OGE said, eh?

 

There aren't really any different activity restrictions, but there are more materials and support for career exploring in an Explorer Post - a network of other Posts of similar interests, training and materials and awards that are more targeted toward career interests, etc.

 

The other reason is that Exploring is under LFL, a separate organization with different membership standards. This eliminates any government/political/PC/etc. issues and allows a government entity to charter a Post with less fear of legal or political reprisals.

 

Beavah

 

[epalmer84]

Exploring is under the Learning for Life program, which does not subscribe to the Declaration of Religious, Scout Promise or Scout Law. There are no restrictions as to gender or sexuality. Thus, there are no issues with chartering a unit to a government entity.

 

Ed

[Trevorum]

These are completely parallel programs? That doesn't make sense.

[ScoutNut]

No, they are NOT completely parallel programs.

 

While both Exploring and Venturing aim to help young people to mature and grow into responsible, caring adults, Exploring is strictly CAREER based. This is what the LFL-Exploring site has to say -

 

"Exploring is a worksite-based program. It is part of Learning for Life's career education program for young men and women who are 14 (and have completed the eighth grade) through 20 years old."

 

Venturing is focused on special interests or hobbies, not careers. The areas of focus for Venturing are high adventure, sports, arts, hobbies, religious life, and Sea Scouting.

 

Before Venturing, Explorer Posts were a part of BSA. Because of the nature of the BSA, and due to the many lawsuits that were started, many Explorer Posts which were run by police, fire and other governmental agencies, would have had to close down. To stop that, BSA moved the career area of Explorers to LFL and renamed the high adventure, hobby area, Venturing.

 

Lisa - Your Fire and Police departments should contact your local BSA council's Learning For Life Executive and talk to them about starting an Explorer Post.

 

 

 

[Beavah]

These are completely parallel programs? That doesn't make sense.

 

Yah, sure it does, if yeh understand da history.

 

Exploring had its start similar to what Venturing is now, eh (and what Ventures are in the rest of the world)? An outdoor adventure program tailored to mature teens.

 

Along the way, Exploring sort of shifted with the addition of career exploring, centered mostly in da public service areas - police, fire, and EMS posts in particular. Da pre-career interest stuff kind of drove the program, but there continued to be "high adventure" Explorer posts. The "specialty" nature of pre-career posts also encouraged "specialty" posts of other kinds, tied to hobbies like historical re-enactment and such.

 

Then along came Chicago and lawsuits over government entities like police and fire departments being involved in the program. So, in a bit of a rush, the BSA spun off LFL, along with all the pre-career Exploring posts, so that they could continue collaborating with public entities under different membership standards. LFL kept the Exploring name.

 

All of the high-adventure and hobby Explorer Posts were transferred over into the new BSA Venturing Division as Venturing Crews. BSA revived some of the old, old high adventure Exploring stuff (like the recognitions) and relabeled it. 'twas a bit of a hasty job, eh?

 

So for most of their history, Exploring and Venturing have been tightly associated. They're growin' apart a bit now that they're under separate management, especially as Venturing builds up its materials. But yeh can see where a lot of folks still kinda think of 'em together. 'Round here, a few of our most successful crews were former Posts.

 

And yeh could probably still play around the edges if yeh wanted. A private, Christian-based EMS service provider could charter a crew and run it like a pre-career post if it wanted, or a public high school could charter a post and run it as an outdoor adventure program. Numbers are numbers, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[GernBlansten]

So Explorers cannot be the best kind of citizens but Venturers can?

[Beavah]

Sure, Explorers can be da best kind of citizens. They just don't have to be in order to join Explorers.

 

Of course, they get to see that workin' tough jobs like EMS, Fire, and Law Enforcement, yeh see people at their worst and most vulnerable. In that environment, the kids may well learn that there's a real benefit to Faith.

 

Probably a topic for Issues, though, eh?

 

B

 

 

[Trevorum]

Thanks Beav.

[Lisabob]

OK this makes some sense to me, thanks. I also see where it raises some dilemmas because on the one hand, we're trying to develop a stronger Venturing program in our district (we have a few very small crews that are more like clubs for a select group of older youth - they don't recruit outsiders, and once the founders go off to college the crews tend to collapse). Starting up some crews that are sponsored by a long-term group like the volunteer fire dept would help ensure more continuity/stability and also a more focused program. On the other hand, it sounds like this is a career-track focus and not a "hobby" focus, which would fit better under the LFL auspices. And avoiding the politics involved with chartering crews rather than posts is an understandable desire.

 

But from a membership perspective - for better or worse - we do not count LFL members toward our district and council membership goals. So there is a strong push to register new units as crews rather than posts.

[Beavah]

we do not count LFL members toward our district and council membership goals. So there is a strong push to register new units as crews rather than posts.

 

Ah, now there's the cart waggin' the horse, eh?

 

[John-in-KC]

Lisa,

 

You might want to have the volunteer fire department check their own charter! Departments vary across the Nation. Some have no tie whatsover to the local government, some have only a tax abatement for the stationhouse. At the other extreme, some are publicly equipped but manned by citizen volunteers.

 

If a Venturing Crew, coupled with LFL materials, makes more sense for the local situation, set it up that way. OTOH, if a LFL Exploring post makes the most sense, do that.

 

Let us know how you decide to do it

 

[Gold Winger]

I've run across Venture Crews chartered by volunteer fire departments and the members do fire guy stuff. I've also run across small police departments chartering Venture Crews, obviously they haven't appeared on Meryln's radar yet. Why? maybe because they wanted the opportunities to take advantage of some of the opportunities that Venturing offers.

 

The real answer is that you've got to do what will make the charter org happy. If they insist on an Explorer post, that's what they get.

[Trevorum]

GW notes, " ...take advantage of some of the opportunities that Venturing offers." Now this just confuses me again. What opportunities? Beav implied there was no real difference in programs between Exploring and Venturing.