New Venturing Crew - Overzealous Advisor???

[diannasav]

Please tell me if I'm crazy or do we have an overzealous advisor. My understand of what the Venturing program is that the Scouts run the Crew with the advisors assistance not direction, am I right??? This is what I have heard preached by our advisor but yet when the scouts have meetings, discussions, vote and agree on something she tells them they can do that and this is what you will do........ The agenda come to the meetings from her and are basically scripted telling her son (the president) what to ask, talk about, etc. I have numerous years experience in scouting but have yet to take the Venturing Leader Specific, but something in my gut tells me there are some serious control issues going on here. How are the scouts expected to learn how to do if they can't do.... When planning events they are told what they will or will not do not given a choice or create something on their own.... There is also some borderline disrespectful scoulding going one also, we are told we are not in the military but it often times feels and sounds very much like we are. This all seems opposite of what the Venturing Program is all about. Am I wrong??? And how would you handle this??

 

You've all been very helpful in the past, I'm hoping your guidance will help me with this..

 

[Beavah]

Yah, diannasav, it's really hard to picture these things properly in our minds from afar, eh? Some of what yeh mention when done one way would be a bit problematic, but yeh know all units get a bit over-adulty sometimes . OTOH, some of those same things can be OK in some circumstances. It's possible to help a new leader by workin' out a "script" or agenda for a meeting, and it's possible to overdo adult "scripting" for a more experienced youth leader who's ready to fly on his own.

 

The answer to your big question "How would you handle this?" is clear (unless maybe you're CC or COR):

 

You shouldn't handle it at all. Your son or daughter should.

 

If you're CC or COR, yeh might gently encourage training, or learning by visiting other crews/going to Venturing RT, etc. - both for the advisors and for the crew members! Teens who see youth-run happenin' in another crew are pretty likely to (politely!) insist on it in theirs, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Crew21_Adv]

Dianna,

 

Greetings!

 

I have had the pleasure of working with many Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and recently Venturers over the years.

 

If I may provide my thoughts and concerns

 

Many adult leaders throughout all of the BSA programs see the leaders manuals; the Scoutmasters Handbook, the Cub Scout Den Leaders Handbook, Webelos Den Leaders handbook, the Troop Committee handbook as belong to the adult leaders of those programs.

 

Some Venturing Crews believe the Venturing Leaders Manual may just be for the adult leaders. It is written for both the adult leaders and the crew officers. Just that most traditional Scouters, expect it to be an adult manual. Make sure your Crew and Crew Officers possess a few copies of this manual.

 

Just like in the Boy Scout program, each unit should issue their SPOL an SPL handbook, and their Patrol Leaders handbooks to the PLs, there should be one copy of the Venturing Leaders manual for each Venturing Crew Officer.

 

Also, One of the methods of Scouting is Adult Association. "The youth officers lead the crew. The officers and activity chairs work closely with adult Advisors and other adult leaders in a spirit of partnership. The adults serve in a "shadow" leader capacity."

 

But on occasion Crew Committee members fail to read the description of the Advisor in the Venturing Leader manual. Bolded "The Advisor is the Key adult Leader and is responsible for training crew officers"....

"The ultimate responsibility for the crew rest with the Advisor" not bolded "As the primary adult leader, the Advisor sets the tone for the Crew, models the desired form of leadership, and helps the officers and members become the leaders of their own crew".

 

 

Quite often, with our youth's busy lives. School, sports, youth employment jobs, prepping for college. I get very little but precious time from my Venturers.

 

Venturing Meetings usually assist the Crew to prepare for Crew Activities. Sometimes involving money, time, or distance from the hometown. This does require a little more than 5 minutes of leadership.

 

Unfortunately, on occasion I lose a few Venturers thru the year. My Venturing Officers and Crew members may desire to be an Activity Leader in the beginning of the school year, only to be caught under a mountain of homework or endless sports practices. Eventually, some of these youths do not attend during the month of their activity. Hopefully, they do tell me that they are not able to attend or fulfill their obligation.

 

So during the beginning of the school year. I always tell my Venturers Officers, it is either you lead or I will lead. If you are ready to lead an activity then please take it from me. The more you talk, the less I talk. I would rather be drinking my coffee, and come in at the end of a meeting for an "Advisor's Minute", but that is up to them if I speak for one minute or longer.

 

(Understand that this isn't a "hostile take over", but more of just telling them to take charge of activity, plan, lead, promote, and execute the entire event, register and complete all applicable paperwork and forms, so that I can just sit back and enjoy a Venturing Activity)

 

The youth enjoy socializing, sometimes the Crew Officers or Activity Leader can get very sidetracked. On occasion, I need to take control of a meeting again and get the Crew back on track. So after about 45 minutes of who's dating who, and who just got dumped who; Mr Crew21 Adv will cut in and say "Hey, I guess transportation will take care of itself this weekend?", "I guess the climbing wall will know we are coming by mental telepathy?", and "Oh yeah, we do have some planning to finish, eh?"

 

Also.. I constantly remind them, a Crew event is from the time we depart the parking lot till we return. It is not just 2 hours at a location 300 miles from here. That the planning encompasses that whole period. They are eager, but still youth officers. So the Crew Officers do need some adult association in planning a complete event.

 

So I would advise Dianna, hopefully all your Crew Officers do have the Venturing Leaders Manual (and read it cover to cover). I would offer that your Advisor adopt a policy similar to mine. "Either the Crew Officers lead, or the Advisor will lead". The more the Crew Officers do for the Crew, the less your advisor will do.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[diannasav]

Thank you for your advice.. The Crew Committee recently broke down the single position of committe chair into two asst. committee chair positions under the committee chair to hopefully allievate commuication problems and these positions are only temporary until a permanent replacement can be found through the charter organization (as well as a secretary position). So we are seeking out the right leadership for this crew. Hopefully once filled will help us to organize ourselves better -- leadership down it will have an affect.

[emb021]

Adding to what some of the others have said (background- have been an advisor the OA, Venturing, and my Fraternity).

 

Ideally, advisors advise, they do not lead. Advisors should not do what the youth can/should do. Sadly, some take this to an extreme where advisors should sit in the back and be quite (what I call the 'silent advisor'), which can too often lead to disaster because the advisor(s) do not step in with advise before something gets out of hand. (an even more extreme version of this is when some youth want ALL the adults to leave because they 'fear' being 'intimidated' by the adults. This is just wrong and not what we teach in the BSA or most other groups I've been involved in.

 

Now. Can advisors help the youth? Sure. If they are uncertain of how to run a meeting, having the advisor work with the chair & secretary on putting together an agenda and going over the things to be cover is a good idea. This should not be "tells them they can do that and this is what you will do". That sounds incorrect.

 

I am also concerned about "they are told what they will or will not do". Its one thing to point out what activites aren't allowed per BSA policy, but this sounds like adult control. Direction, to me, is not the same thing.