Venturing question

[csnider]

My son (16.5) has hit that magic age where his interests have started changing. He's become disinterested in our troop and wants to join a venturing group. I am not that familiar with venturing other than mostly older boys are in it. Our troop has a high amount of young boys. If he leaves our troop and joins the venturing group, does it work the same way? Can he still complete his remaining mb's, do his eagle project and make eagle. He's so close!

 

Thanks,

Craig

[Stosh]

As a ASM and VA both, I'll give you the answer from both sides.

 

First of all, the issue is not either/or. It is both/and. One can be a Boy Scout and a Venturer at the same time. It'll cost you $1 for a second membership.

 

With my Ventur(ing) Crew, we are very specialized in our interest area (American History: Reenacting). When we first started our group 8 years ago the Council was nervous about us "stealing" older boys away from Scout troops. We simply solved the problem with our first rule. If you are a registered scout when you want to join, you are required to stay with your troop and Eagle out. If you are not a registered scout and never were, you can ignore rule #1.

 

There have been 4 boys who Eagled out while registered with our Crew. Only one boy (under rule #1) did not and he dropped out of both units.

 

Again, do not look at this as an either/or situation. I'm sure both the CA and SM will agree with this approach.

[Eamonn]

jblake47

I hate to be disagreeable.

But .....

" We simply solved the problem with our first rule. If you are a registered scout when you want to join, you are required to stay with your troop and Eagle out."

You don't have the authority to enforce this rule.

The choice is up to the youth.

He can continue to work toward Eagle Scout while not being a member of a Boy Scout Troop. So long as while he was a Boy Scout he reached First Class.

If he has never been a Scout, he would never have reached First Class and can not work toward Eagle Scout Rank, without joining a Troop and earning First Class there.

Craig

Your Son has a lot of choices.

*He can remain in the Troop and complete his Eagle there.

*He can join the Venturing Crew or Sea Scout Ship and opt to complete his Eagle Scout requirements there, while still remaining a member of the Troop.

*He can leave the Troop and just be a Venturer or Sea Scout and finish the requirements there.

*He can remain in the Troop and join the Venture Crew or Sea Scout Ship and complete his Eagle with the Troop.

The final choice is his.

We have Sea Scouts who remain in the Troop and work on Boy Scout advancements with the Troop.

We have a Lad that is working toward Eagle with the Ship and we have some that are just happy to work toward Sea Scouting and Venturing Awards with the Ship.

I would have to look it up.

But I think once he has made his choice he needs to remain in one program for things like POR And conferences -But once met all the requirements can be transfered over.

To be very honest I find we have so much going on in the Ship that adding Eagle Scout requirements and MB's only makes my life more difficult!! But the program isn't about me.

My role is to serve the youth.

Eamonn.

Welcome to the forum.

[Beavah]

I like jblake's way. It's a nice way to encourage cooperation between units, when kids can spend that kind of time. It's not required by all crews, though.

 

If your son leaves and joins a Venturing Crew, you'll find that the crew works a lot differently from the troop. It will have more genuine "youth led" feel, and be more "age appropriate" in some way for a boy your son's age. The crew sets its own uniform (usually an informal one), and Advancement is not a method in Venturing. But all of the character, fitness, and citizenship stuff is alive and well. Stronger, even, for bein' more adapted to that age group's needs.

 

In terms of Boy Scout advancement, your son can fulfill his position of responsibility in the crew (by being, for example, Crew Treasurer or Vice-President). He can work on merit badges while in the crew, though they won't usually be a part of the crew program. And he can do his Eagle project, get a "SM conference" from the crew Advisor, and receive a Board of Review from the crew committee. So, if it's OK with the crew, your son can do all of his Star-Life-Eagle scouting with the crew. And the Venturing awards will encourage him to go back and serve as an instructor for the younger kids in his old troop occasionally.

 

I find that the more relaxed, not advancement-focused style of a Venturing crew is great for boys like your son. That's more important than any award, eh? But boys who stay in usually get the encouragement along the way to finish Eagle.

 

So your son I think will adapt fine, eh? You might have some time adjusting to the less [adult] "organized and structured" feel of a crew.

 

 

[Stosh]

While technically you are correct on the enforcement of Rule #1.

 

However, before we take on any crew members from other troops they make the choice to follow that rule. It is enforced by the boy himself.

 

[Beavah]

You don't have the authority to enforce this rule.

 

Aw, not again. We should all go off to a solstice party or somethin'.

 

Course he can enforce the rule. Same as an LDS can enforce a "no boys under age 11 or over age 13" rule in a troop if they want. Units get to decide who they admit, and who they retain on the roster from year to year. Volunteers get to decide how they spend their own time. If the commitment is dual registration, then every boy knows what Trustworthy, Loyal, and Obedient means for this unit when they join, eh?

 

Scoutin' is a gift, not an entitlement.

 

That bein' said, jblake47's is the proper way to go, eh? Kids live up to their own commitments.

Leastways, until some adult teaches 'em to argue everything.

 

[Eamonn]

" If you are a registered scout when you want to join, you are required to stay with your troop and Eagle out."

I fail to see the choice?

However, before we take on any crew members from other troops they make the choice to follow that rule. It is enforced by the boy himself.

So what you are in fact saying is that all Venturers who want to work toward Eagle have to do so with a Troop -The only way to meet the First class requirement is with a Troop.

Again I don't see the choice.

"While technically you are correct "

There is nothing technical about it!!

It is the way the program is written.

I'm sorry Beavah, your harping on about the arrangements that the BSA has with the LDS, is getting really old.

Of course he can enforce the rule, just as some units enforce wearing camo pants, retesting at BOR AND 101 other things that really shouldn't be enforced.

But this is not how things should be done or how the program is supposed to be delivered.

Denying a member of the BSA the right to work toward earning his Eagle in a Crew or Ship, if he has met the other requirements is just plain wrong.

There could be a myriad of reasons why the Lad might not want to stay with a Troop.

Allowing Crew Advisor's to make up their own rules is not the way things are done.

All of our Chartering Organizations are represented by the members of the Relationship's Committee who sit on the National Council, if a group of CO's feel that changes are needed to the program, they have a voice there.

Eamonn.

 

 

[csnider]

Ok, I'm the one who posted the original question. I too an an ASM in the original troop. My son (currently at Life) is somewhat disenchanted with the troop mostly because of the age and maturity of the troop. The last thing I want to do is force him to stay with the troop. He appears to be pretty interested in this other venturing troop, which is encouraging. If I had my druthers and he can advance to eagle at the venturing unit, I'm leaning to let him do it. I'd rather have him be happy and want to do it because he wants to be there. In addition, it might be hard to add this along with the troop because of his schedule.

 

As to his mb's, there are only 2 or 3 of his eagle req'd mb's left and all would be on his own time. The last thing outside of that is the eagle project, which he's just started the process.

[John-in-KC]

Csnider,

 

Let's start with some info off the National Website:

 

What is Venturing? http://www.scouting.org/venturing/about/venturing.html

Good synopsis of the program.

 

About Venturing: http://www.scouting.org/venturing/about/index.html

 

Program Support: http://www.scouting.org/venturing/support/index.html

 

Venturing is designed to allow young men and women to drill into interest areas. It has some G2SS latitude which Boy Scouting doesn't, and it gives the youth increasing independence in program design, development, and execution.

 

I know a Crew which supports one of our Council Camps with youth staff. I know another Crew which does HS theater and music. I know still a third Crew which specializes in advising the Life Scout on his trail to Eagle.

 

Crew21_Adv and emb021 are two superb folk for the Venturing program amongst us. Eamonn has a particular focus, he is a Sea Scout Ships' Skipper. (Sea Scouting, while the elder program, is now supervised by the Venturing Division of BSA).

 

BTW, my son finished his Eagle in the Crew. The BSA Advancement policy is: Once you are First Class, you may continue to Eagle in a Crew, without being registered in a Troop.

[Beavah]

Yah, cnsnider, I think you're thinking about this right.

 

Your son sounds like he's ready for a crew experience, and like it will be a great next step for him. In general, he can still work on finishing his Boy Scout advancement in the crew. The level of "push" he'll get from the crew leadership will be smaller, though. Since girls and other non-boy-scouts are also members, the crew won't typically offer things like MB classes, etc. It's just not a part of the methods of Venturing in a good crew. So whether a crew is "up front" about it like jblake or not, Boy Scout advancement is just not what the crew is about.

 

I'd encourage your son to pursue crew membership, with or without retaining his troop registration. Eagle will be his own, independent choice, as it should be, eh? But you'll both be pleased with the other things he gets out of the crew.

 

Ignore the rest of us jawin' about program adaptations and "authority." It's an unrelated runnin' argument between friends.

 

[csnider]

I thank everyone one and all. I also wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas!!!

 

I think I have enough to go on for now. Although I am somewhat sad about his loss in interest in the troop, I am glad that he still wants to pursue it through a Venture crew. I will try to contact the head guy. I myself will be continuiun my role in our troop as my nephew is in it, as well as I'm an ASM as well as the District MB Dean.

 

Thank you again!

Craig

[Beavah]

I'm sorry Beavah, your harping on about the arrangements that the BSA has with the LDS, is getting really old....Of course he can enforce the rule... and other things that really shouldn't be enforced.... But this is not how things should be done or how the program is supposed to be delivered.... just plain wrong.

 

Sigh.

 

Just so yeh understand, I find the harping here about how every other scouter shouldn't be doing this, that or the other thing, and how any scouter who doesn't do it "my way" or "the way" is "just plain wrong" to be equally old.

 

I'm really not sure why that is so attractive to some scouters. And, though I'm not LDS, the sort of subtle prejudice against LDS in some posts is simply awful.

 

I have never once, ever, anywhere, seen a pack, troop, crew, or ship who did absolutely everything "by the book" according to the extant official interpretation. Not once. Not in Scoutreach, not in other direct service units. Never.

 

But I have known many outstanding scouters, and cheered many outstanding programs.

 

Those who write program materials never think in the absolute terms you do, and never intend their materials to be used in the way you suggest. Nobody who puts together handbooks for kids is trained to think in terms of strictly worded regulatory policy (with its risk of unintended consequences), and no strictly worded regulatory policy would be useful to the kind men and women volunteers who are just doing their best to work with kids.

 

The only time I've ever seen someone hurt kids and damage the reputation of the program is when they insisted on only one interpretation, only one way, and in their self-righteous bureaucratic indignation stopped supporting the people who were working with kids every day.

 

Ours is a role of humble service, and gentle support. When we forget that, we lose our soul.

 

 

[Stosh]

Boy Scout troops specialize in producing Eagles

 

Venturing crews specialize in producing Rangers

 

What one does best should run the program.

 

While it might be technically possible to Eagle from a crew, why does the crew have to redesign it's program to accomdate a few of the members of the group. That means a crew must do Eagle prep, Ranger prep and special interest prep.

 

No thanks. We tell the boys up front if they want Eagle stay in the troop, if you want ranger pick another crew, we do special interest only. Then the boy can decide what he wishes to do.

 

Stosh

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually, Venture Crews can specialize in producing Rangers, Questers, Trusters, Quartermasters, and I don't think there is one out there for Arts and Hobbies Crews as yet.

 

The question of what a Crew will or will not do is up to to the membership and the adult advisor. WARNING: I will explain myself. Let's say the Crew I support wants to go on a Cross Country Skiing Trek involving 5 days on the trail. I would help them arrange all aspects of the trip but I would also let them know they would need two adults as I am not planning on going. There are many things I will do, but 5 days in the snowing skiing is not one of them. The reality is, just because I am a Venture Advisor and it's up to the Crew to set the program doesnt mean I have to Bungee jump (if it were allowed, of course its not nor do I want it to be) off the Golden Gate bridge (Yes, I know thats not allowed either even if G2SS allowed Bungee jumping, I am using hyperbole to make a point)I do get to set my own personal limits.

 

 

[Eamonn]

"That means a crew must do Eagle prep, Ranger prep and special interest prep."

What is this prep?

Eamonn