The same old same old

[Eamonn]

The DE called me today.

I t seems that the District had wanted to do a Venturing weekend, but changed it to a Council event because we don't have the numbers.

"When is it?" I asked

"Sometime in April." He replied.

" I'll talk to the Quarterdeck" I said.

"Where is it I asked?"

" Up at camp" He replied

" I kinda think our Scouts are not going to be interested unless you have a really good program." I replied.

" Oh - Well we don't have a real program, we thought we'd just open up the camp, maybe do some rappelling and use the rifle range."

I reminded him that the last time we did this a couple of years back, that the turn out was good, lots of older Boy Scouts and it seemed very much like an OA weekend.

"Well that's what's more than lightly going to happen this time" He said.

OK, I suppose he gets something for some kind of effort.

I'm sure the kids that do attend will have a good time.

But..

Is inviting a bunch of older Boy Scouts up to a Camp to do the same things they did last summer and the summer before that really going to do much for Venturing?

Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[local1400]

Does your district have different units "host" a camporee or similar event? Up here Troops will host a camporee and it is usually held in their town. As an ASM in ME in 90 our troop hosted a "Pioneer Days" camporee. With help from DE we put this theme together because we were tired of the same old same old! Each unit had to lash a gateway for their site for starters and really had to scout the old fashion way no Colemans etc.. but modern stuff like flashlights were allowed for safety. Our troop always won the dessert contest. Apple pie in a dutch or reflector oven and it was served ala mode. Someone had an old hand crank ice cream maker and young boys provide lots of energy. Someone posted you were sounding meloncholy the other day. Dont lose hope I know its discouraging these days but for new ideas I look to the past when scouting was a more successful operation. I think the business and legal end of the BSA has taken alot away from the program but never give up give all you got!

[Lisabob]

Sounds to me like your DE is glossing over the differences between the two programs. Among questions I would ask: Do these weekends typically result in new recruits for crews? If so then maybe that's ok. If not then they're just glorified reward weekends for older boy scouts where crews are allowed to "play" too. "Just play" has its place but he shouldn't be surprised if not very many crews want to participate.

 

Why isn't there a theme or an attempt at an organized program rather than just show up and play? The latter may be novel for boy scouts who are used to highly structured events but crews can (and from what I hear, frequently do) do the latter any time they want.

 

What is the particular appeal to Sea Scouts (as opposed to other types of crews) in this program? Is it fellowship with other crews? Is it a chance to learn or demonstrate specific skills that are revelant to their program? Is it that your ship is one of the larger and more successful crews in the area and he needs you to get the head count up far enough so the event doesn't lose money or look like a flop?

 

Sorry to say that from what little you've posted, I'm inclined to be a bit hard on the DE and his motives here. His plan appears to need some work in order to make it worth while to the crews he is inviting.

[Eamonn]

local1400

Planning a worth while event really isn't that hard.

We should however try and cater for the age group we are trying to serve.

What might be fine and dandy for a Tiger Cub, becomes the same old same old when the Lad becomes a Webelos Scout.

We seem to understand this when it comes to Cub Scouting.

However when it comes to Venturing, it seems that we are to either do nothing or when we do get off our duffs, we want to recycle Boy Scout activities.

Many of these kids have been in Boy Scouting, some still are. If they wanted to do Boy Scout stuff they would have remained in Boy Scouting or they can do it with the Troop.

Sure inviting an all girl Crew to come up to camp would provide them with new and exciting things to do.

Many of the Scouts have done the Brown Sea Island type camp, Dutch oven cooking isn't new to them.

They crave and need new challenges, new activities, adventure and something that sets them apart from being Boy Scouts.

I can't think of anyone that I know who thinks of Boy Scouts as being big Cub Scouts, so why do we think of Venturers as being big Boy Scouts.

To be very honest we as a Ship as so darn busy with our own program and the programs offered by the flotilla that we don't have time to participate in Micky Mouse events.

While we are happy to invite Crews and Troops to events that we are holding, we don't have the equipment or the man-power to take on large events.

We are located in one of the best possible areas for all sorts of activities. You name it and I'll bet I can get a bunch of kids there. We have wonderful trails for hiking and biking, caves, lakes, gun clubs, a big city 45 mins away. With all this so close at hand another weekend up at camp just shows total lack of imagination.

Or sheer laziness.

Eamonn.

[local1400]

I admit I dont know much about the Venture program I have been out of Scouts for 17 years. Missed every day though. I dont even think there is a Venture crew in my area. Did Ventures replace Explorers? Your right Ventures and Boy Scouts probably wouldnt mix company well. I wish you the best of luck but the S.O.S.O. has been recycled for years. Each camporee was the same as a scout for me but I still went just to stay involved.

[John-in-KC]

Eamonn,

 

Gee, here's a novel concept. Ask the Council VOA to figure out what they would like to sponsor for a Venturing weekend for the youth.

 

If it comes back rappeling and single-shot rifles, OK.

 

Of course, if it comes back with other activities, then the DE needs to look at how the Council can support it, just as any other Consultant would.

 

... Or is the DE just simply looking to get the Council dollars by opening the Scout Camp and charging use fees?

 

I can be awfully cynical some days...

[emb021]

"I admit I dont know much about the Venture program I have been out of Scouts for 17 years. Missed every day though."

 

Please keep in mind that Venture and Venturing are two separate programs.

 

Venture is an opional program for Boy Scout Troops for their boys over 13.

 

Venturing is the co-ed program for 14-20 youth.

 

Please don't confuse them.

 

"I dont even think there is a Venture crew in my area."

 

They are Venturing Crews, not Venture Crews.

 

"Did Ventures replace Explorers?"

 

Venturing sort of replaced Explorers. Exploring was split in 1989, and all the career-oriented Posts were moved (along with the Exploring name) to Learning for Life. All the non-career oriented posts (high adventure, outdoors, sports, art/hobbies, youth ministries, along with Sea Scouts) became the new Venturing program.

 

"Your right Ventures and Boy Scouts probably wouldnt mix company well."

 

Members of Venturing are called Venturers.

 

[FScouter]

If you want to hammer on the DE, please go ahead, but not because he is doing a poor job planning a program activity. Quite likely, the district chairman doesn't have a program chairman, and/or an activities and civic service chairman. Running or planning activities is NOT the job of the DE. Hammer on him instead to fill the district committee with competent volunteers to plan and run the district program activities.

[local1400]

emb021 Thank you for the info. I will try to keep it straight. I guess a lot has changed in Scouting over the years.

[John-in-KC]

I am going to hammer on the DE here, because it looks like he doesn't know how to leverage the Venturing Program and the capabilities of the youth. He's looking at "yet another camporee" imo.

 

EAmonn wrote: "but changed it to a Council event because we don't have the numbers."

 

I can see that, my District doesn't have enough Crews to make a go of things collectively, and we're a 300 series (meaning BIG) Council, and we're in a BIG (65 Packs, 55 Troops) District.

 

We have a VOA for a reason. These are older youth, who we're supposed to be empowering to make decisions. We allow them to drive on their own to functions (a Scout can't drive another Scout per G2SS), we allow them handguns in program activities, we allow them co-education.

 

As we say so often here, we don't necessarily know everything from our posts. Even Eamonn, a stalwart here, may not have given us all the info.

 

So, Eamonn: Does the DE have a solid working knowledge of the Venturing program and how to leverage the youth of the program, Council Wide???

 

[Eamonn]

At the risk of sounding like a miserable old goat.

My role in Scouting is that of a unit leader.

My job is deliver the program to the Scouts in the Ship.

" Does the DE have a solid working knowledge of the Venturing program and how to leverage the youth of the program, Council Wide??? "

I don't know what he knows.

We don't have a Council VOA.

As far as the District goes I think that the Ship is the only real active unit in the Venturing program and we are Sea Scouts.

FScouter

I kinda think that the DE has taken this on himself!!

With so few real Crews and only one Ship, there isn't anyone to do the leg work.

My feeling is that he feels he has to do something and this was the best he could come up with!!

I'm not upset with him, I'm upset that this sort of Micky Mouse stuff passes as "The Venturing Program"

Eamonn.

 

 

[local1400]

Eamonn, I hope I didnt offend you. The point I was trying to make, and maybe I dont make much sense because I get on here early am after working all night, is that as a unit we were also tired of the council camporees- they became so predictable, that either we stopped going or work to make changes to the program. And to stop going was a disservice to the kids in our troop who looked forward to the camporees.

[Eamonn]

local1400

No of course you didn't offend me!!

In fact I'm upset with myself that you think you did.

In some ways I see this invitation to attend this event like being asked out to a dinner party, only that when you get there the only thing being served is hot-dogs and baked beans.

Some people love hot-dogs and baked beans and maybe if the invite was to attend a cook out, hot-dogs and baked beans would be fine.

As for District Camporees and District events?

I have mixed feelings about them.

The first things that come to mind are:

Why have them? Do we need them?

Back when I was serving at the District level. I have to admit that it seemed that we had four District Camporees on the calendar, because they had always been on the calendar.

They do offer the Scouts an opportunity to see that they belong to something bigger than just their home unit and provide an opportunity for both the Scouts and the Scouter's to mingle and get to know each other.

I have to admit I seen having four Camporees as taking away from the Troops own program. The argument against this was of course if the Troop feels that way they don't have to attend!!

This led to a big long discussion about supporting the District. Some people did feel that Troops that didn't attend were not supporting the District. My feelings were and still are that the District is there to support the units and if Troop 666 is busy delivering the program and doesn't need or want to attend, the choice is their's.

As for the need? Sadly in the District it became clear that Camporees and District events were in some Troops their program. Without Camporees, the Scouts would never get to go camping.

As for the quality of the events?

I think maybe because these events moved from the same spot on the calendar year after year and everyone knew when they were, some sort of a complacency set in and somehow it seemed that planning was something that just wasn't necessary. Sure at some stage someone came up with a theme mainly so that a patch could be ordered!! But I lost count of the number of times I arrived at the camp-site on Friday night and attended a leaders meeting where the agenda was "What are we going to do?"

We did manage to improve our Camporees, by finding a strong District Activities Chairman and a committee. They didn't always plan all the events, but they did help and at times prod the people who were supposed to be planning the events. We did invite the organizers to attend District Committee Meetings and report on what was happening and after the event what had happened.

SPL's were invited to attend the Boy Scout R/T and asked for their input, suggestions , ideas and were asked to take on responsibility for certain parts of the event.

When we looked for ways to improve Camporees, we seen that we just weren't charging enough!! Everyone seemed afraid to spent anything on needed supplies and equipment, because that would mean charging more than $5.00!! Not having what you need to get the job done just doesn't work.

We noticed that Scouts would return to their Patrol or Troop sites for lunch on Saturday and never return, only to be found tossing a football around in the parking lot!! So we included lunch.

We used to have a Winter Camporee in January, but I pushed to do away with it, because of the poor quality of camping in some units. I was really scared that a Scout was going to get hurt. Sadly these Scouts hailed from units were they never would get the knowledge and skills needed for cold weather camping and by the time they get to camp it's too late to do much about preparing them. The District doesn't have the man-power to go into units and teach these Scouts and was never invited to do so.

Man-power has a lot to do with what a District or Council can offer.

When I served at the District level I was not connected with any unit. As District Chairman, I asked all the Committee chairs not to ask or invite Unit leaders to serve on committees. I thought and still think being a unit leader is a full time Scouting job.

Maybe the real question is: Is having a poorly planned event, better than not having the event?

I have never managed to watch all of the movie Groundhog Day, but when a Lad or a Lass joins Venturing I think they have expectations of doing new and more exciting things and facing new challenges.

I have no idea where the idea for this Venturing Weekend came from.

I know that since Her Who Must Be Obeyed has been ill that I'm not as visible as I have been in the past. But I still have a phone and e-mail, still no one asked me.

Which being we have the largest membership of youth in this age group does seem a little dumb to me.

The final word as to if we attend or not will of course come from our Quarterdeck.

I'll try not to open my mouth!!

Really!! I'll try really, really hard!

Eamonn.

[John-in-KC]

Eamonn,

 

Thanks. Sounds to me like this DE's efforts would be better served finding a couple of volunteer adults to advise a Venturing Officers Association, and getting it up and running.

 

Now I'll come back to what FScouter said, which is "hammer the guy because he isn't recruiting the volunteers he needs to." The DE needs to recruit two layers of volunteers: Adults to advise a VOA, and you to be a VOA!

[Stosh]

With Tiger Cubs, they all basically do the same thing.

 

With Cub Scouts, they all basically do the same thing.

 

With Boy Scouts, they all basically do the same thing.

 

With Venture Scouts, they all do basically different things.

 

To develop a probram for the Tigers, Cubs and Scouts is a no brainer, but how does one design a program to meet the diversity of Venture Scouts? Well, they probably can't, so why try?

 

High Adventure crews might be able to pull off an event here or there together, but I'm a Venture Crew Advisor for an American History crew and we are one of mayby 2 or three such crews in the entirety of the United States. We pull youth from different councils, not just different cities or districts. There is nothing that the Council is going to provide for us that will at all interest any involvement with in this crew. We're talking apples and oranges here, big time.