What is your perspective of a crew and how it relates to the scouting program?

[Aidan_MacAnBhaird]

We are a relatively new high adventure crew in the northeast and are finding a good deal of confusion and anxiety from other scouters about venturing. Therefore, I am asking den leaders, troop leaders, and other crew advisors to give their take on venturing.

 

What do you think is the definition of a Venturing Crew?

Do you use the resources available from a Venture Crew near you?

How do you think a Venture Crew fits into the scouting program?

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Welcome to the Forums Aidan, as a member of the group that almost put you off of these forums let me answer your question. The results you saw were humor, or at least attempts there of.

 

As you know a Venturing Crew is an individual unit within the BSA. It is in no way part of a troop (which may have a Venture Patrol) but may have male youth who are members of troops. A Venturing Crew may be all male, all female or Co-ed. As is the Crew I am associated with.

 

The Venturing Program fits in Scouting in that it has the same mission but different methods. Venturing allows the youth to be more actively involved in the program and is very open to the interests of the youth. You find crews follwing an Arts and Hobbies program such as the model rail roading Crew in our COuncil or one that does WWII renacting. They may do Sports, Youth Ministries or Sea Scouts as well as the Outdoors. Its for older youth (oxymoronish I know) 14 to 21 years of age. The Crew I am with tends to promote individual camping skills, in that we back pack a lot while also developing teamwork in that we have organized quite a few Council Venturing events, all youth led.

 

The biggest detractors of Venturing in scouting come from units or the attitude that you will steal the boys from the troop. And the older boys at that! The issue is Crews dont steal boys from Troops, Crews may attract boys whose troops have a boring program. Not much of a difference, but its there. Crews dont steal members, troops lose them.

 

Anyhow this is a start, I know several others on the forum are quite sold on Venturing so I cant wait to see what they have to say. I am in Bethlehem PA, where are you?

[purcelce]

Ok here's my take:

 

1.What do you think is the definition of a Venturing Crew? What OGE said...

 

2.Do you use the resources available from a Venturing Crew near you? Sometimes, if it will benefit the program of my crew then yes. I've also teamed up with other Crews on some events.

 

3. How do you think a Venturing Crew fits into the scouting program? Again what OGE said. I've had my share of run ins with ASM's and SM's when my crew formed. I got the "you're stealing our older scouts!." I would remind them that they I was not stealing older scouts, they we're coming to the crew because we had a great program. I encouraged and still encouage new members who are under 18 and still with a troop to stay with the troop, but that they can do both. If the situation come where the kid has to make a decision, then it's his not mine.

 

Funny thing happened at WB this past weekend. I'm the only Venturing Advisor in C-39-06, and when a staff member was giving an overview of the four BSA programs (Cubs, Boy Scouts, Varsity, and Venturing) we'll they got mixed up or didn't do their homework and grouped Venturing and Venture Patrol as the same program. I politely intrupted and corrected the situation. Afterwards one of the staff members came to me and and said "Thanks, they've been butchering up, and needed to hear it from somebody else"

 

 

 

Cary P

Crew 805

[emb021]

OGE and purcelce covered a lot of point that I was going to. So I'll only add this.

 

Why is there 'confusion and anxiety from other scouters about venturing'? Sounds to me like a lack of training. New Leader Essentials, which all of them should have taken, is supposed to cover Venturing. Also, if they would bother to take Venturing Leader Specific Training, that might answer a lot of their questions. (of course, I'm assume that 1) your council is offering it, and 2) they have qualified VENTURING trainers giving it, not some bozo reading from a syllabus).

 

The National website provides a lot of materials on Venturing. There are also several videos available (which your council should have, either on VHS tape or DVD). One of the videos is aimed at Scoutmasters.

 

Also, as a High Adventure Crew, I recommend that you look for and take a Powder Horn course asap. Sounds like your council probably isn't offering it, so look at the powder horn website for a nearby course and take it (www.powderhorn-bsa.org). Also, as a new crew, I would recommend that you and others in your crew joing the 'venturinglist' Yahoo Group. They knowledgeable people there can help you out.

[Aidan_MacAnBhaird]

Awsome in just 3 posts, 3 wonderful amounts of information.

 

Thanks for the perspective OGE. Where did you learn about venturing and form your opinions prior to being a part of the organization?

 

I have run into this issue too, PurceIce, and am in the process of getting it corrected.

 

And my next internet stop after finishing helping one of our boys with his eagle will be the powderhorn site!

 

I have not stated any information in posts or on this site since I have a great deal of questions, and did not want anyone to take them out of context or for anyone to look at the council negatively when I am researching this of my own accord.

 

I am the Associate Advisor of Crew 4017 in the Greater Western Reserve Council in northeast ohio (possibly not too far from you OGE and your emphasis is right up my personal alley). I am presenting Venturing to the district at the upcoming October Round Table Meeting as there seems to be a huge hole in the understanding of what we do and how we do it in relation to troops. I have found a competent training source, but no, to my knowledge the concept and purpose of venturing is not taught at the scoutmaster level. I want to make that presentation as great a benefit as possible to our district and council.

 

We are seeing a decline in older youth in some troops and I have been spending over a year drilling down to the boys and parents themselves as to why they are leaving. I have a relatively descent level of understanding in our area and with the varied situations of different troops, but would not necessarily equate those reasons to all scouts accross the country. I agreed to come on board for the chartered organization, as I am utterly sold on the concept and value of scouting, and was honored at providing a venue to help retain older youth. Now I am up to my eyeballs in misconceptions and need to ensure that this presentation is bang-on effective. I am working with our District Commissioner, who is highly committed to the success of this crew and who has also talked with scoutmasters about this in previous years. It apparently needs to be addressed again.

 

I have one shot. What is your take on how to make this as successful as possible?

[OldGreyEagle]

I am 20 miles from the New Jersey border, doesnt look like we are close, you are actually closer to Eamonn, he may be commenting soon. If you send me via private message your email address, I can email you a power point presentation I have on Venturing. It has some older data on it but alot you could use.

 

BAck in 1998 my son and I were attracted to Venturing because it was something unusual and different and didnt have the same rules as Boy Scouts. At the same time the girls of the church that sponsors our Troop got tired of seeing the troop in the parking lot in sunday and getting told we just got back from 2 days on the AT, or Getysburg, Antietam or someother place. They wanted to play as well and the Girl Scout Troop they were with wasnt doing it for them. Out of that group and several scouts the Crew was born. Originally it had 4 Girl Scout Gold Recipients and a Silver as well as 6 Eagles. I can say one of our young ladies ended up being the Northeast Region Venturing President and today she is employed by the COuncil as a DE (its tough when they turn to the Dark Side)

 

Our Crew is quite ecletic in nature, we say we are a High Adventure Crew although 3 of the bronzes earned in the Crew are in Youth Ministry. The Crew has a tradition of doing a week long Habitat for Humanity trip each summer for the past 5. I like to say we are a mediocre adventure crew, we climb, rapel and do white water but draw the line at polar bear swims in January and downhill skiing in July. We do what the youth want. We have a developed presentation at the local Community College's Gourmet Restaurant run by the food service students on Etiquiette. After all those years of being told not to eat with elbows on the table, the youth are going to proms, weddings and the like and certainly wont ask mom what fork to use. So, we have a 6 course meal and the staff instructs on proper "eating" technique. Its well received each year. We also have our urban adventure tour. We are 45 minutes fronm the Holland Tunnel but few of the youth had ever been in NYC. So every year in december we have gone to NY for the day. Last year we were in Times Square and they got to get a picture with the Naked Cowboy. Now there's real recruitment fodder (for one segment at least)The Venturing Oath ends with a promise to find adventure in the world and we find it every where we can.

 

The Crew has had 2 adult recipients of the COuncil Venturing Leadership award as well as 3 youth recipients. At one time it was remarked that Crews usually have a special interest and ours was Administration, its what they wanted to do. Put on a Halloween/COPE weekend, the VLSC, a Cardboard Boat Regatta, etc. Venturing truly is what you and your youth make of it(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eamonn]

I think it's only fair that I state that I have issues with the way a lot of Crews go about Venturing.

By the way not to change the subject I did enjoy your first two postings. I was going to reply but that's another story.

Back to the thread.

As you asked for my perspective I'm not going to give the book answer. However the book answer isn't that far off what I think.

I think when we get the opportunity to work for the older youth it seems (To me anyway) that the vision and mission of the BSA has a real meaning and we the adults really do see the fruits of our labor.

Youth of this age seem better able to communicate how and what they feel and very often do!!

Venturers are not "Big Boy Scouts" any more than Boy Scouts are not "Big Cub Scouts"

The BSA is to be congratulated for seeing that there was and is a need for Different courses for different horses. Sadly in my view this message has not got through to the Council and Districts.

I was a Venture Scout, back in the UK, at that time Venture Scouting was the next step after Scouts. In fact to become a Queen's Scout you had to be a Venture Scout.

I don't see Venturing as being the next step.

It should be a program that is geared to the interests of the youth members. I get a little upset that the BSA lists High Adventure as a method of Venturing.

I know Lads who quit Boy Scouting because they really dislike the programs that are called High Adventure (Philmont, N.Tier). There is or should be a place for them in Venturing.

When I was looking for a place to hang my hat after serving at the Council and District level, I met a couple of older Boy Scouts who had met some Sea Scouts at the National Jamboree, they wanted to give Sea Scouting a try. So we started a Ship.

I know and the other members of the Ship know that a program that is as narrow (But deep) as Sea Scouting is not for everyone, but it's not supposed to be!!

At present 25% of the Ship is female, most were never in Girl Scouts, about 10% of the Boys were never in Boy Scouts,30% are active in Troops and the rest were either in Troops and quit or aged out.

By design we try not to get involved in Boy Scout events.

We are youth-led, which at times does cause headaches (they don't like fund raising!!)

As a Ship we at times suffer through the trials and tribulations that the youth members go through, Scouts who have been dating break up and feel unsure what to do next, Scouts fall out with their parents or move from one parent to another. People who are supposed to do something fail to do it at times because there is a good reason and at times because there is no reason.

Most of all I see Venturing helping to fulfill the vision and mission of the BSA.

The Ship has sent Sea Scouts to packs to do Flag ceremonies (They are impressive in their whites) and talk about the Flag, the Sea Scouts have had Boy Scouts visit to learn and put knots to use, later this month we will take some Boy Scouts sailing and we hope that a couple of Troops will invite us to cover Leave No Trace,which some of our Scouts are doing as part of the Ranger Award.

We did manage to lose a couple of Sea Scouts over the summer, so we are back down to about 30 Scouts.

We are not in any way interested in removing active Boy Scouts into Sea Scouting, if the Boy Scouts are happy doing what they are doing, more power to them. Our Council also has a Civil War whatever Crew, I don't really know what they do, when they do it or how they go about doing it. I know that it isn't my cup of tea, but if a boy or girl were to come and express an interest in that I'd gladly give them all the information.

That Crew does invite Scouts to attend their shows and I'm sure the big cannons and guns do fire up the imagination of a lot of young people.

Sadly Venturing has been abused.

I know when I was District Chairman chasing Quality District, if we were a couple of units shy of making the goal, I'd talk nice to a couple of Scoutmasters and before long we'd have a couple of new units. Sadly they never lasted very long as they had no real foundation and no real idea of what direction they were heading.

One year we lost 6 units!! 4 Crews, that was the same year we got a new DE he came back from PDL. We met and I was talking about new units. He said "No problem, I'll start some Crews, there easy!"

Just like any BSA unit Venture Crews need to be build on a strong foundation with real working support from CO, Adult Committees, and caring trained adults. We need to look at what we are doing as Stewardship. Even if the unit is new we are only looking after it until the next group comes along.

One year wonders only hurt the entire program.

Eamonn.

I don't know where the Ohio Council is?

But we are about 45 miles from Pittsburgh PA.

(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[Aidan_MacAnBhaird]

emb021 - We received information on venturing in leader essentials (these were not syllabus readers and had advance notice of the frustration I had been going through to get trained). They made an effort to educate the pack and troop leaders that were present, but from what I am hearing from seasoned leaders, this can not be the norm. It seams (and this is only my impression) that once a scouter takes a training, it would be beneath them to ever take that training again.

 

Any ideas on this? How do you aproach these people when they already "know everything," or is it best to just ignore them and move on? The real problem lies in that some of our boys are in these troops, and even though the youth are just as committed and involved as pre-venture, you would think we "stole them overnight".

 

Right now our super activity is Destination: Sea Base 07. We have certified dive instructors who will be teaching the youth, adult leaders, and any parent that wants to attend for free. We are adjacent to Hiram College, and are in the final stages of negotiating using their facilities to teach these classes through the winter. We have garnered a good deal of equipment for the youth to borrow. I am still working with the Marines and US Army on some supplies and other assistance we may need in other areas of interest to the crew.

 

Some are interested in computers and web development; thus, they will form a committee and part of their adventure will be to develop our web site. One has already started and is almost finished producing a Power Point presentation for our upcoming Open House.

 

One is just starting on his Religious Bronze and Trust. The whole crew voted to attend Scout Sabbath as a show of support to their fellow scouters across denominational lines. (The crew is all Cath. and Prod.)

 

All are pretty committed to service, and as their first outing, taught outdoor cooking skills, proper equipment cleaning, and the fun of forraging. I got the greatest kick when one of the boys finally broke down to these moms (usually hunting and fishing wives sent to learn to "love" going out with their families) "that if they really want to have fun, stop doing and start delegating." He explained that they were not there to be the camp maid, then turned around and pointed to our adult leadership stating, "they don't do anything for us, we are responsible for everything on our campouts. And we still all have fun and come back!" By the look on these women's faces, he hit the right chord.

 

I thought that High Adventure was the lack of being pidgeon-holed coupled with the ability to do extreme sports. It seemed the most open classification to take, excluding nothing the youth could imagine. We do things the troops can't or won't. I fail to see a logical connection in their attitude we are a threat.

 

We just completed a huge recruitment presentation to an entire community (and we serve many). I had a couple of boys interested that were not young enough to join, so convinced them they should give scouting a try. Their names and parents' phone numbers were passed on to the leaders, who's eyes almost popped when they found out "we had recruited for them". I will be taking two recruits and their parents to a scout meeting Tuesday as a good will gesture. The older just joined our crew, and since his younger brother is not yet of age, thinks it would be great to scout with him. So much for competition.

 

I can't spend all my time building up troops. What other actions seem to speak louder than words?

 

 

[Lisabob]

I first learned that venture crews existed when I took NLE and den leader training with cubs. THere were a couple of people in green shirts and being the curious and slightly nosy person I am, of course I asked them who they were. There was mention of the program in our NLE presentation but as I recall it got into about as much detail as the Varsity program - which is to say, next to none. Beyond that, I think it is safe to say that in my area at least, the venture program is not something that cub leaders are at all familiar with.

 

Currently I'm a troop committee member and I help out with some of our district membership stuff. I'm sorry to say I don't see much of the venture program in action in our district. There are a few crews in existance but there doesn't seem to be any interaction across unit lines and almost all of the crews have membership in the single digits. The only time I tend to see venture crews at scouting functions is when they are doing some kind of service (serving food or set-up/clean-up activities). Further, my general impression of crews to the extent that I've gotten into conversations with a few people about their crews has been that they tend to be idiosyncratic and personality-driven. So when the small group that started them goes off to college or ages out, they die off. I have wondered sometimes whether the very open-ness of the program is part of the cause of this problem.

 

This is all clearly not true of most of the crews and ships people on this board have written about. I've learned a good deal more about the program on this board as a result and I'm in awe of the things many of you do with your crews and ships. And I would love to see a strong venture crew program develop here too. I just haven't yet.

[Crew21_Adv]

Aidan,

 

Greetings!

 

I certainly concur with my fellow Venturers regarding the definition of a Venturing Crew. (with nothing more really to add).

 

I would like to address your second and third questions.

 

Do you use the resources avaialbe from a Venture(ing) Crew nearby?

How do you think a Venture(ing) Crew fits into the Scouting program?

 

Advancement is not really a method of Venturing, but Recognition is of the advancement program is. I interpret that to mean we encourage the crew officers to plan programs and events that will allow advancement in one of the five themed areas. However, some Venturers just enjoy the association and not motivated to advance any further. A year round program containing some elements of the recognition or advancement program is essential to a Crews success.

 

In Boy Scouting, a Scout needs to learn, tested, reviewed, then recognized in the Advancement program.

 

Taking a look at most of their advancement, part of their accomplishing the Venturing Skills is to demonstrate to others, as table top displays, speaking to a group or teaching. Many times this demonstration could be considered the same level as tested for a Boy Scout. When the Venturer is demonstrating the Skill. It can be aimed at a Den, Pack, Patrol, Troop, Summer Camp or Camporee, in addition to some of their High School classes just to list a few places.

 

As for now, most of the Venturers I serve prefer to instruct only to the Crew. Few will visit the Troops, none visit the Packs, however, these Venturers have assisted during Cub Day Camp.

 

Bottom Line. I believe some of these demonstrations the Venturers need to perform in the Venturing Handbook, should be to the benefit of neighboring Troops and Packs, teaching advancement skills at age appropriate levels.

 

So I believe all the Venturing Crews should be a resource to Troops and Packs.

And I believe it tightly fits into the Scouting Program, with its own style and diversity from the other programs.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[Aidan_MacAnBhaird]

Eamonn - I have met a few Sea Scout Advisors over the summer at the Cleveland Tall Ships event, and have the wonderful benefit of watching a crew in action. I CAN ONLY DREAM OF SEEING OUR CREW THAT TIGHT AND THAT FOCUSED! WOW!

 

The "one year wonders" have popped up in Ohio also. The CO, committee, and Advisors are committed that this crew not be one of them, with the goal of a well set foundation to continue the program long after most these adults are gone.

 

Lisabob - thank you so very much for your perspective and for keeping an open mind regarding all the possibilities within scouting. One of the reasons you may not be seeing crews except in a service mode is possibly due to one of the situations I have run into in this entire region: a number of councils or event planners do not want them involved in scouting activities and would prefer that they stay as non-existent in appearance as possible. Case in point is trying to get our crew into Winter Event for this year. A lot of head scratching ensued as people wondered aloud if crews were even allowed to participate with troops. Of course we could "work" the event. I pointed out that the crew was already working the two scheduled pack winter events for the area, and a goodly number of the boys were already scheduled to work ALL through residence camps. My question was, "when does the crew get to play as a group?" That changed the perspective completely. I do not yet know the outcome.

 

The crew wants to use the event as a team builder (they want more unified appearance and more proficient team work). They even went so far to ask if learning to march (into and out of flag ceremonies, etc.) more impressivly could be done by the Marines, with the dual benefit of maybe having some of the discipline rub off. I tried not to let my eyes pop and LOL. Out of the mouths of babes! We will see how much they want better self discipline after they meet with the 1st Sarge and his men asked to "consult" this idea.

 

The CO does not want our crew to be singularily personality driven. I see your point Lisabob. While the adults strive hard to ensure other adults do not try to pidgeon-hole us, the youth are doing the best job of all. We are youth run, and yes OGE, it has been a little difficult to keep the adults out of the boy's way, and keep everyone using the proper chain of command - including myself. The program so far has encompassed camping, water skiing and camping, fund raisers, helping a pidgeon-holed crew in another council, volunteering in the community, fundraising, working on the outdoor bronze (after explaining the recognition process and its importence to what they were trying to accompish, I gave them an opportunity to choose for themselves what & if they wanted to do it. They chose to do the outdoor together, and work on others individually; four want all five bronze). That has just been since June, and they are all newbies to crew life.

 

Lisabob - do you think the crews you see are not doing much outside the crew level because of coucil or district or other leaders perception of crew, or do you think they naturally just do not want to mix?

[Beavah]

Yah, an interestin' thread, Aidan. I'm glad a crew advisor that you've recognized that councils and districts and leaders in other BSA programs really don't have a clue about Venturin'.

 

I think dat's partly because Venturers really don't have a clue yet about their own program, eh? Lisa'bob has a good point when she calls 'em idiosyncratic.

 

Round here, we've seen some crews that were formed by CO's that ran troops. In some cases, these have been the most persistent, because they have ongoin' recruitment. They were a way to keep high school boys while welcoming girls, and challengin' both with more adventurous stuff.

 

We've seen a fair number of crews that seem to be formed by a core group of older boy scouts and female friends, to do their thing, whatever that happens to be. These last a few years and do an OK job for that group of kids, I guess, but they are kinda cliquish I guess, and don't recruit new members to be sustained.

 

There are the crews formed by the parents of sisters of boy scouts, to try to duplicate what a good troop is doin', but for girls (with a token boy or two). These seem to suffer the same fate as da group of friends crews; they last as long as the foundin' family is in then fold. I think in part it's hard to do what a troop does without a middle school program, to build skills and excitement when kids have more time.

 

The biggest thing with crews that are successful is that while youth run, there's also an underlyin' focus/specialization of some kind. Outdoor adventure sports seems to work. A tighter focus like Sea Scoutin', or SCUBA, or re-enactment seems to work. But the more unfocused, "whatever the youth want" kinds of crews don't last. I think it's because they don't know what they're really sellin' to new members.

 

That's the problem I think your fellow scouters have along with da kids who may be recruits. Venturin' is a bit of a mishmash, eh? It's hard to tell anyone outside what the program focus is exactly. Are yeh partners and resources for troops? Or alternate older-boy programs dat may steal kids? or youth ministers in green? I see da program as still immature, and tryin' to find its way. The confusion by other scouters, the high unit turnover and such are all symptoms of that.

 

But a full handed-salute to yeh for tryin' to educate. I've been a commish for two crews and an AA, and I still am in need of educatin'.

[Lisabob]

Aidan,

 

I have heard in the past that there was confusion at the district/council level about what kinds of events troops and crews could participate in together. I don't think that's the main issue any more though. I know that crews are "allowed" to participate in things like camporees, etc.. What I don't know is whether, or how, they are encourage to attend. What I mean is, boy scout troops get blitzed w/ info about these events. I don't know if the same is true of crews, or if they're an afterthought - if they show, great, if not, oh well sort of attitude? I do think the crews are viewed by some adults as being a labor source to work at district events doing basic tasks(this is where I hear adults mention crews most often, as in "maybe we can get some venturers to do..."). In this regard I think it highlights a bit of confusion that remains over who or what the crews are about.

 

But there are more boys in my son's troop than there were registered venture crew members in the whole district last year. In fact we've had more boys "age out" of the troop in the last year than most of the venture crews have around here as members. And not one of them has joined a crew, or as far as I'm aware, been recruited to do so. So it also may be a matter of size. Along those lines I've heard some philosophical discussions about troop leaders who fear that crews might "steal" youth members, but it hasn't been a big deal in reality because the crews are so very small.

 

Here's one thing I have wondered in the past. Maybe we need to look at starting crews on college campuses as extra-curricular clubs rather than starting crews in the places that traditionally have chartered packs and troops? I can't tell you how many of my students come to college as "former" scouts and would probably welcome an opportunity to stay active if the structure were in place. I realize that on public U campuses like the one where I teach we'd have to figure out how to charter such a creation (ie, not by the university itself, just like public k-12 schools don't charter units much any more). But I am confident it could be done.

 

Lisa

[Lisabob]

Aidan, thinking about your presentation to your RT group in Oct, here are a few things that I (as an audience member) might want to know:

 

1. What, exactly, do your crews do? Give some specific examples of the focus and events that some crews in your area have. Don't feed me the "crews can do pretty much anything" line because that won't sell me on the value of the program.

 

2. Give examples of things that crews in your area can (and DO) do, that troops could not. And not just, "they can have girls as members." Substantive examples. Yeah, we can take our older boys sea kayaking, hiking, (insert high adventure activity of choice here), etc. within the troop structure if that's what they want. So what do we need a crew for?

 

Eamonn said something along the lines of "crews are not big Boy Scouts just like Boy scouts are not big Cub Scouts." Ok then, what's the difference? Spell it out for them.

 

3. Do crews pursue the same basic aims as boy scout troops (fitness, character, citizenship)? If so, how does whatever they're doing in #1 and #2 link to that? If not, how do the aims of venturing mesh with the "aims of scouting" that most boy scout leaders are familiar with?

 

4. Provide information, if you can get it, on how many boys "aged out" of troops in your district last year. Point out that these boys are missing out on opportunities to continue to learn and grow in the scouting program as crew members. What troop leader could begrudge you boys that can no longer be members of the troop program?

 

5. Provide contact info for whoever is in charge of recruitment/membership for crews in your district - by crew, not some district membership person who may not know anything about crews in reality. If people wanted to join or encourage their existing members to check it out, how WOULD they contact these crews? Info needs to be readily available.

 

6. Depending on what kind of discussion you hope to have with the adults present, consider inviting some current crew members to help you with your presentation. It is harder to deny the enthusiasm of youth members. On the other hand if you want to air the complaints/misconceptions that some leaders have and really talk about them, people will be less likely or comfortable doing that in the presence of youth members (which might be to your advantage in terms of framing the conversation, I don't know).

 

7. If there are cub leaders at your RT please provide them with a reason to care about crews other than "in 10 years your boys might be interested." I used to HATE going to RT to be told stuff that wasn't relevant to pack leaders. You might mention that there are crews in your area who would be happy to come to a pack or den meeting to share something with the cubs (if this is true), along the lines of what Eamonn mentioned his ship doing.

 

The above all assumes that crews also see themselves as an integrated part of the scouting program, which I think is a sticking point for some skeptical leaders. You asked "how do you think a V.C. fits into the scouting program?" I think it is important to articulate the response from the perspective of the venture program too.

 

Good luck and let us know how things go.

 

Lisa'bob

[Beavah]

Maybe we need to look at starting crews on college campuses as extra-curricular clubs rather than starting crews in the places that traditionally have chartered packs and troops?

 

Yeh really think so, Lisa'bob? I've always viewed Venturing crews as poorly adaptable to university campuses. The age 21 thing between "youth" and "adult" gets in the way. The availability of so many other opportunities, including the outdoor/outings programs at most universities. And the ability of kids to just go climbin' on their own, eh? No need for a group.

 

What does charterin' a crew get you that startin' a club doesn't, other than more regulation and paperwork in exchange for less financial and practical support?

 

Many of da former scouts do seek out Alpha Phi Omega chapters, so you're right in that there's interest in "keepin' in touch."