Transfer charter, how?

[Bob White]

I'm sorry you this as a word game, I don't. I see the question about transfering charters and I know that that is not a possibility. You cannot make a promise to one person and then transfer that promise to someone else. You must make that new person a new promise. Charters are a partnership between the BSA and a specific organization not the members of the unit. It cannot be floated around. It either exists or it does not exist.

 

What you are are describing is a unit that has lost communication and cooperation with the organization that started it and so hopes that by picking up stakes and moving to another charter organization the problem will be solved. In most cases this is a short lived solution because the unit half of the problem continues to exist and in short order causes the relationship with the new CO to deteriorate.

 

In the councils I have been in the answer to your question is "no" your unit tenure would not continue. I say this because what is being measured is not the existence of the unit but the length of continual charter between the BSA and the CO that you are leaving behind. Just because the members are transfering to another unit does not mean the original CO could not recruit new members and leadership by the end of the chartering period and continue their partnership with the BSA, unit # and all.

[dan]

Do you really think that the boys care how long a unit has been in exsistant?

[Fat Old Guy]

"Do you really think that the boys care how long a unit has been in existance? "

 

Some do and some don't. Just like some care that their school won the football championship last year and some don't.

[dan]

Most do not.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Most do not"

 

I haven't done an extensive survey. However, I do know that the Scouts that I've met that are in low numbered units take great pride in the fact that their Troop has been around for 50 or 75 or more years.

[NJCubScouter]

My son's troop has been around for more than 75 years, and has the "75 year" bar built into the special troop numeral patches they had made up. (The name of the town is in there (in tiny letters) too, I think that is good because I miss the old community strips.) I think some of the boys, especially the older ones, do take notice of the "75 years" and take some pride in it. Not a big thing, just a small aspect of "troop spirit." When they have an Eagle COH they make a big thing about the boy adding his name-plate to the board that has the name of all 80-something Eagles the troop has had, going back to the beginning, with the year of the troop's founding on it. I think that if you soft-pedal historical things like this and not try to hit them over the head with it, some will make it part of their experience as a Scout and gain something from it.

[Bob White]

I think a lot of the nuances of scouting are not perceived or appreciated by the scouts as youth (my how youth is wasted on the young). It will not be until they get older that they will more fully appreciate the effort and commitment it took on the part of a number of people in order to maintain a program for decades on end.

 

Bob White

[dsteele]

Bob58 -- when you scroll to the bottom of this post, you'll see why I didnt' answer your question posed (I believe to me) on the previous page.

 

You were correct when you discussed the charter, property and the Unreregistered Unit Report. Nicely done.

 

Bob White, your answers are correct as well, with the possible exception of the question of whether the tenure goes to the chartered organization, the charter, or the unit.

 

This is a grey enough area that there is actual leeway on the part of the council. I've dealt with variations of this theme several times.

 

Here's how I usually decide how to call that particular shot -- right, wrong or indifferent, when there are no solid guidelines, someone has to make a judgement call. Usually the key three has heavy input into it and makes recommendations to the Scout Executive.

 

My general sense is if the only thing that is really changing is the chartered organization -- which has given up the charter and equipment, etc., then what you really have is a continuation of the unit under new ownership. The number and tenure remain.

 

The above is the exception rather than the rule. A lot of other variations on the transfer the tenure idea have been attempted, and I have not allowed those. One was "Well, pack XXX used to be down the street and the church is gone, but they still have an account. Can we restart that pack and keep their tenure? (and their bank account, I might add.) Answer: No.

 

Dave Steele

 

PS -- Bob58, don't apologize to me, I should apologize to you for not answering your question sooner. I can't fault anyone for calling me Dan when I usually end my posts only with "DS."

[Bob White]

I understand what you are saying DS but you are not really measuring the continuation of a unit. The anniversary bar and the continual tenure, measures the sponsorship of the organization.

 

In any unit the adult and youth membership are in a continual state of change. the award is not for being the same unit because it is not the same unit. It is not for having the same number because as councils and districts have consolidated many units staying with the same CO have had to change numbers. The recognition and the measurement is for the length of time that the CO held a charter with the BSA.

 

To allow a unit to retain tenure when changing sponsors is the same as my grandfathers ax. It has been in the family for almost 150-years, we have had to change the head 8 times and the handle 4 times but it is still a great ax.

 

Can you see how when the membership is always changing and the numbers can change and then you allow the CO to change, what in heavens name are you actually measuring?

 

The only possible constant over the decades is who chartered the unit. If we are not going to only recognize one CO at a time then there is no point in tracking the number of years.

 

Bob White

 

[LittleCarl]

mantuawarrior mentioned several ideas to become "blessings" to the CO. My wife mentioned this also as the Cubs did service only as an afterthought for the last several years and the Troop's service projects have been out in the community.

 

Given that members of the Church broke into our designated "Scout Closet" and went through the equipment while we were at summer camp, I am not entirely optimistic that service projects will salve the wounds here.

[matuawarrior]

Broke into your equipment closet. That's not good.

 

Have the leaders(IH, COR, CC, and SM) sat down to talks things out?

 

You may have to ask them point blank if the Charter Org. wants to keep Scouting, if not, there maybe away for them to donate the equipment to the next charter. You may also work it if they can release the funds to the next charter. The worse they can say is "no".

 

 

IF it is that bad already then form a new unit.

 

 

Matua

[Bob58]

Thanks Dave, now I know why an old "Dan of Steele" remark fell flat. I'll try to pay closer attention.

Bob White, there are times that e-mail doesn't allow for nuance. Two points, first I wasn't speaking of my unit except in the sense that I'm the DC in the case of the examples that I gave.

Second I take tenure very seriously. My unit, the one in which my son & I are active has a curious past. Founded in the 1920's its charter lapsed in the 40's. With district re-allignment when the parish chartered a troop in the late sixties it was assigned a new number. (I don't know if the church "released the number," but as I said the districts were realigned, there was an existing unit in the new combined district and our church was issued a new number.) In the late 80's some of the parents who knew the original unit, its leaders & adventures, asked the church to charter a Pack & Troop. ( I moved into the parish a few years later.) 15 years ago, at the time the parish began the pack & toop, the "new" leaders asked about the "old" number. The number was not in use within our district & we were allowed to resume using it. This fall we will celebrate 15 years of continous service. We proudly display the flags of the two previous units in our meeting place. We've had many souts & scouters from the other two incarnations touch base and we welcome anyone interested in scouting, past or present.

 

Bob

[dsteele]

"Dan of Steele" would have been pretty funny and is funny now that I see where you were coming from (although I missed the original remark.)

 

DS