Crew Girls in OA

[Herms]

At the camporee a couple weeks ago our Crew watched (and the many of the boys participated)in the "Call Out" ceremony. After we got back to camp the girls in the Crew were asking if they could be in the OA which we informed them they couldn't until they were adult leaders. A

 

After spending some time thinking about it (and listening to the girls protests) I got to thinking, why couldn't BSA come up with a program to allow these older girls to participate? They do a great job in the Crew and would be a great asset to the OA.

 

Your thoughts???

[BadenP]

Herms

I agree with you 100%, however don't hold your breath waiting for National to change their policies.

[OldGreyEagle]

I don't think allowing female members (read Venturers, I am not talking about adults) in the OA would be a good idea and before I get stoned as a knuckle dragging neanderthral, let me s'plain.

 

Lets say that Venturers were allowed in the OA, and that the nights camping requirement was the same, but that the Venturer had to earn the Bronze OutDoor award instead of first class. Sounds good so far? Ok, now to the crux of the issue.

 

You have to be 14 to join a Crew, if it takes 18 months to 24 months for a Venturer to get the required camping nights in and earn the Bronze Out Door award (no mean feat I will tell you), the earliest a Venturing youth could qualify for the OA is roughly 15 1/2 - 16. What is the average age in your area of Boy Scout ordeal candidates? Would this be a workable situation?

 

On a completely sexist note, if they let Venturing Girls be OA members, I predict 6 years from that date the National Chief with be a Cheiftess and just about every Lodge Chief will be female. Its got to do with Ages and Stages

[nldscout]

At the risked of being burned at the stake, Youth females do not belong in OA.

 

If yours or other venturer females want an organizaton like OA start something. They tried once with Corp of Discovery, it flopped due to no intrest.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

While OGE's idea has merit, the facts of the matter are:

 

Registered Boy Scout

Under Age 21

Minimum First Class while a youth program member

15 days and nights of camping, of which there is a LT camp component.

 

The only option I see is qualified 18-20 year old women ASMs.

 

They are in the age where membership is voted by the youth. They are also above the age where rank can be earned, so the camping requirement is the only one out there.

 

Frankly, though, I agree with OGE on ages/stages. At the local HS, student council, band executive council, and class leadership are dominated by young women. Boys need places where they can assert leadership and management skills.

 

Eventually, young men have to leave the primary leadership roles in Troops to others coming up.

[trailfinder52@yahoo.com]

As previously posted there is an option for co-ed Venturing Honor Society and that is the Corps of Discovery idea coming from the Lewis and Clark Expedition Corps of Discovery. This idea seems to be outdoor oriented and it is not known quite how ships, or arts and hobbies, religous life and sports crews would react to it. It is on the crew level and does not interfere with the OA at all. Crew does the nominations and elects youth according to the size of the crew or ship. This is up to the crews. The previous pre-98 Exploring program had Post elections up to 1992 OA decided that Exploring was not outdoor enough anymore for the OA, but it was probably because of the co-educational nature of Exploring, and that is probably the case now. If a crew advisor is wise he/she they will encourage a crew to elect youth for the COD or have another idea for a Venturing Honor Society.Instead of having to tell the girls in the crew that they do not know, or saying that's how it is".

[campcrafter]

OGE wrote:

"You have to be 14 to join a Crew, if it takes 18 months to 24 months for a Venturer to get the required camping nights in and earn the Bronze Out Door award (no mean feat I will tell you), the earliest a Venturing youth could qualify for the OA is roughly 15 1/2 - 16. What is the average age in your area of Boy Scout ordeal candidates? Would this be a workable situation?"

 

"On a completely sexist note, if they let Venturing Girls be OA members, I predict 6 years from that date the National Chief with be a Cheiftess and just about every Lodge Chief will be female. Its got to do with Ages and Stages"

 

OGE - that is sexist and I disagree with your predictions. So what is your point. Female leaders are allowed and they are much older than the average age of boy candidates.

 

My opinion is if girl Venturers are not allowed in OA then NO female should be allowed.

 

Being that the OA is more youth run than other parts of the program, I also believe that no adult should be called out and initiated. You can have advisors who aren't "members". We have lots of SMs who were never scouts and can't ever earn First Class why should they be allowed to earn OA honors?

 

cc

[campcrafter]

"As previously posted there is an option for co-ed Venturing Honor Society and that is the Corps of Discovery idea coming from the Lewis and Clark Expedition Corps of Discovery. This idea seems to be outdoor oriented and it is not known quite how ships, or arts and hobbies, religous life and sports crews would react to it. It is on the crew level and does not interfere with the OA at all."

 

Sounds like "seperate but equal" which is never equal as we found out regarding education 50 years ago.

 

cc

[purcelce]

OA is a Boy Scout Program, not a Venturing program, there are several Crew that are not outdoors.

 

I don't see a need for a Venturing Honor Society.

 

Cary P

Crew 805 Advisor

OA Vigil Honor

[scoutldr]

I don't know about other lodges, but I suspect they are similar...if OA were limited to Boy Scouts, most of our Lodge and Chapter Executive committees would change dramatically, as most of them now wear dark green shirts! The average age of an elected officer would probably drop from the 16-18 that it is now (my perception - no data to back it up) to 13-15. Overall, I think that would begin the demise of the OA.

[SR540Beaver]

scoutldr,

 

Many of your OA boys may be wearing green shirts, but they could only be elected while wearing tan shirts. Girls can't wear tan shirts.

[scoutldr]

Once you're IN the OA, you can be elected to office up to the age of 21 as long as you're still a

"youth Venturer"...right? Our Lodge chief is a college student.

[John-in-KC]

The YOUTH PROGRAM OF THE ORDER OF THE ARROW STRETCHES TO THE 21ST BIRTHDAY.

 

That is a different issue than where the Arrowman has his primary registration.

 

- I have seen serving 18-20 year old Venturers in Lodge Office

- I have seen 18-20 year old Assistant Scoutmasters in Lodge Office

- I have seen under 18 youth program members of Boy Scoutin in Lodge Office.

 

Be registered in BSA somewhere is the issue

 

ICS

[nldscout]

John-in-KC,

 

"The only option I see is qualified 18-20 year old women ASMs."

 

She would not be qualified either. Under 21 you are a youth for OA rules. So she would not be qualified as she couldn't make 1st Class.