Earning the Eagle rank in a Crew/Ship.

[CNYScouter]

During our meeting last night the topic came up about earning the Eagle rank in a Crew/Ship.

 

The DE said that a Scout can earn the rank in the Crew but must be registered in a both a Crew/Ship and Troop to receive the Eagle award.

 

During the Venturing Leaders training we were told that as long as the Scout has made first class he could earn his Eagle through the Crew but no mention was made about having to be registered in both a Crew and a Troop.

 

He said that he had just gone through this and National had just rejected a Scout in our council Eagle application because he had joined a Venturing Crew and dropped his membership in a troop.

 

Has anyone dealt with this situation?

 

[emb021]

Have never heard of this. Your DE is wrong, and it doesn't conform to what is in writing. In fact, the National Venturing Division had to post a clarification on getting Eagle in a Crew at the National site because of misinformation like this.

 

A Venturer/Sea Scout can earn Star, Life, and Eagle in their Crew/Ship WITHOUT keeping their registration with a troop. National should NOT be rejecting any application because of this. They MAY have kicked it back for other problems on the application. In my area, we have a handful of kids getting their Eagle in their Crews, and I'm sure thats true in a lot of other councils.

 

[CNYScouter]

emb021-

What you are saying is exactly what we were told in Venturing Leaders training.

 

Do you have a link to the web page that says this?

 

He told me that the next time I came over to the council office he would show me the letter he got from the BSAs National Registrar stating that a Scout must be registered in both a Troop and a Crew to receive the Eagle rank.

 

But, this is the same person who referred to the unit as a Sea Scout Venture Crew and told me that he not sure if he can charter us as a Sea Scout Ship because we dont physically have a boat and he would have to check on it.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Boy Scout Requirements (33215B), 2006 edition:

 

All the below is on Page 5:

 

"Merit badges, badges of rank, and Ealge Palms are for boys who are registered Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts. Any registered Boy Scout or Varsity Scout may earn these awards until his 18th birthday. Any Venturer who achieved the First Class rank as a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout may continue working for the Star,Life and Eagle ranks and Eagle Palms while registered as a Venturer up to his 18th birthday."(underlined emphasis added)

 

Rank Advancement for Venturers

 

"Any male Venturer who has achieved the First Class rnak as a Boy Scout in a troop or Varsity Scout in a team may continue advancement toward the Star, Lfie, and Eagle Scout ranks up to his 18th birthday. He must meet the requirements as prescribed in the official Boy Scout Handbook and the current Boy Scout Requirements book. The Venturer may fulfill leadership requirements by serving as president, vice president, secretary, or treasurer of his crew, or as boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, or storekeeper of his ship.

 

"The Scoutmaster conference will be conducted by the Advisor or Skipper. As the Venturer meets requirements for the Star and Life ranks, a board of review will be conducted by the crew or ship committee. the Eagle board of rewivew should follow the procedures established by the local council."

 

Hope the BSA policy helps (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Eamonn]

CNYScouter

Have this poor misguided DE read page 64 of the Venturer Handbook.

Make sure he has it the right way, if not he will be reading the Ranger Score Card.

I really think you need to stop listening to this person.

Our tiny little Council has four DE's, two are under 25, one is over 25 but under 30. The best of the lot is a Lady, who was never involved in Scouting or the BSA until she started working for the BSA.

I'm not sure but I think a couple of these may be Eagle Scouts, but as we all know there are some Eagle Scouts and there are some Eagle Scouts??

Just because they are DE's does not mean they know what the heck they are talking about.

No one in the Council I'm in has any idea what Sea Scouting is about.

They don't have to -That's my job.

Please contact one of the Sea Scout Ships near you. You can find a list of the Ships in New York on the Sea Scout web page.

Noel Guzman at

SSS441VIGILANT@NYC.RR.COM

is a really nice fellow, he will talk your ear off (I spent 4 hours on the phone with him one night!)

We only have about 500 Sea Scout Ship's in the USA.

Everyone I have met and spoken with really wants Sea Scouting to do well.

Sadly it seems in Councils where there isn't an established Sea Scouting program, there is a lot of stuff that just isn't right.

While we are part of the Council I think you will find that for most Sea Scouting activities the Council is about as useful as pockets in your underwear, you need to contact the other Sea Scouts that are near you.

They may not be on your doorstep but with only 500 units that's understandable.

Over Memorial Day weekend we are driving five hours to attend The Nygard Regatta.

Our Sea Scouts met other Sea Scouts at the winter training weekend and came up with the idea of not only going but using the Regatta events as the basis for the weekly meetings.

About 150 Sea Scouts will be at the event along with a bunch of adults, these are the guys/gals who really know what Sea Scouting is all about.

These are the people who run the big Sea Scouting events like SEAL.

Not some DE who seems to have a knack of opening mouth and inserting foot.

Eamonn

[CNYScouter]

After our meeting last night, where I had both the Venturing Leaders Manual and the Sea Scout Manual, and showed these sections to the DE.

 

He responded with yes a Venturer can work in a Crew/Ship towards the Eagle Rank but he still must be registered in a Troop to earn the Eagle rank and had written documention to support this from the National office.

 

I'll ask to see this next time I get over to the council office.

 

Any Venturer who achieved the First Class rank as a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout may continue working for the Star,Life and Eagle ranks and Eagle Palms while registered as a Venturer up to his 18th birthday."

 

This does imply that that a Scout can be registered only as a Venturer and continue to work on Boy Scout Ranks, but I can not find anything that contradicts his statement.

 

[BadenP]

CNY,

 

I think John and Eamonn have given you all the evidence you need. This DE sounds like he is trying to save face after giving you a wrong answer, and Eamonn is right on when he told you to stop listening to him. I was constantly having to illuminate my own DE when he gave out wrong information, and since he knows I was a DE and Field Director for over five years he now asks me for advice, go figure. A DE is a resource, they should not be making up answers but researching to get you the correct answer.

 

Being involved in Venturing/Sea Scouts sometimes feels like we have to recreate the wheel with all the mis information floating around out there, even though all these rules and regs are in the BSA Venturing and Sea Scout manuals. CNY, stick to your guns.

[Eamonn]

The Eagle Award

Eagle Scout is primarily a recognition for boys in Boy Scout troops. However, having attained the First Class rank in a Boy Scout troop, a male Venturer may continue to work toward becoming an Eagle Scout until his eighteenth birthday by meeting the requirements as prescribed in the Boy Scout Handbook.

Leadership requirements may be met in the Ship as Boatswain, Boatswain's Mate, Yeoman, or Purser. The personal conferences will be conducted by the Skipper and the bridge of review for each progress award must be reviewed by the Ship Committee.

 

Taken for the Sea Scout web site.

CNYScouter

Why would the Leadership requirements be Venturing or Sea Scout positions if the Lad was still in the Troop?

Why would the Skipper take the place of the SM?

A Lad can remain in the Troop and be a member of a Crew or a Ship but he doesn't have to.

Could it be that the DE needs the Boy Scout membership in order to make Quality District?

Or am I not being kind?

Eamonn.

 

[Kahuna]

The DE is just wrong. I'm speaking from experience. About 6 years ago, we had a young man actually earn and receive his Eagle when he was only registered as a Sea Scout and had not been a Boy Scout for some time.

 

The DE doesn't understand Venturing. (What a shock )

[CNYScouter]

On top of telling me that a Scout had to be registered in both a Troop and Crew to work on Eagle he also said that they could not dual register and had to pay a fee for both programs.

 

I agree 100% with the posts here.

 

As this question already came up I want to be sure that any scout in the ship who wants to make Eagle has everything he needs and not be held up over something like this.

 

Out of 6 DE's in our council I was told this guy is the best one we have.

He is also considered to be the Venturing expert as the Ship will be the 12th Venturing Unit he has started in his district.

These units make up almost half of the crews in the council.

 

(This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

[Eamonn]

My son choose not to recharter with the Troop.

(Mainly due to the fact that they charge $65.00 and he would have to pay half)

He has just completed his Eagle project.

He filled all the positions of responsibility as a Boy Scout.

We have his records.

But he is no longer a Boy Scout -He is a Sea Scout. He will attend the Eagle Scout Rank BOR as a Sea Scout.

We have two other Sea Scouts who choose not to be multiples. Right now they show no interest in working on their Eagle Scout rank, but that might change.

If it does we will be more than happy to work with them.

While past credit for some things can not be used in Venturing or Sea Scouting, requirement met while a Sea Scout or Venturer can be used to meet certain Boy Scout requirements.

While there are knowledgeable DE's out there, it is worth remembering that the NE-Region lost 15% of the Venturing membership last year. A lot of this "Loss" can be attributed to just six councils!!

Councils who didn't really understand Venturing and signed up youth that really ought to have been in Exploring or some other LFL program.

The Council I'm in "Lost" over 400 Venturers.

The guy who pushed this through was at the time seen as the White Knight of the Council. It was said that he had a deep understanding of what Venturing was all about.

He got promoted, moved to a new Council. -Leaving the clean up for some-other poor soul.

When it comes to program talk to volunteers in the program, they have the same agenda as you do.

Sadly some professionals don't.

Eamonn.

[emb021]

"On top of telling me that a Scout had to be registered in both a Troop and Crew to work on Eagle he also said that they could not dual register and had to pay a fee for both programs."

 

Do I need to point out he is again wrong???

 

The page on-line doesn't see to be there anymore.

 

In addition to the resources others have mentioned, all take a look at the "Advancement Guidelines" book. They put out a new version each year.

 

 

Your DE needs training in Venturing. Heck, there is even a video tape training aimed at the BSA professionals. (bet he's not seen it...)

 

[Herms]

All these posts are right on. Just had a great young man from our Crew get his Eagle last Saturday.

[CalicoPenn]

From BSA Publication # 58-728 - "Eagle Scout Rank Application" (accessed online at Scouting.org)

 

"Merit badges, badges of rank, and Eagle Palms may be earned by a registered Boy Scout, Varsity Scout OR Venturer" (emphasis on OR is mine).

 

The application makes it very clear that one does not need to be registered as a Boy Scout to earn the Eagle Scout rank. It doesn't get much clearer.

 

CalicoPenn

[CalicoPenn]

As an afterthought - giving the DE the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he does have a letter from the registrar that says a boy in a Crew has to be registered as a Scout as well. If that's the case, show him the application (and the word OR) and together, get on the phone to National and ask for someone else from the registrar's office to make the correction - it could be someone in the registrar's office that made the mistake.

 

CalicoPenn