Need Advise - Venturing Situations

[CNYScouter]

We are having an organizational meeting for this ship this week in which we are hoping to have enough youths and adults to charter the unit.

 

I already have had a few questions come up and would like to know how some of you experienced Venturing Leaders would handle these:

 

1)One of my sons friends wants to join the Ship. He has done his POR in his Troop but still has required MBs to finish for rank advancement. He wants to only be in the Ship and leave the Troop. Would you allow the POR from the Troop or require that he do this with the Ship? Would you check with SM to make sure he fulfilled the POR?

 

2)Another one of my sons friend would like to join the Ship. He is going to be a CIT at camp for 4 weeks this summer. The Sea Scouts advancement has a 75% attendance requirement. How would you handle this?

How about sports? There are a couple of scouts who play football, with practice and games 6 days a week the months of Sept. and Oct. and if they miss a practice they dont play.

 

One thing the CO is worried about is youth signing up for the summer, basically getting free/cheap sailing lessons through the Ship and not being active doing other Ship activities. They are also want to know we are going to keep the kids from disappearing once winter gets here.

 

I think these are topics that should be handled by the youth but as this is a new ship these questions have come up before we have even started.

 

[LongHaul]

CNYScouter,

I am not a Venturing Crew advisor, nor do I play one on TV. According to the Advancement Policies and Procedures as long as a boy has received First Class Rank while registered with a troop he can continue to work toward Eagle Rank while in a Venturing Crew. The requirements are the same. As to the POR question, once the requirement is fulfilled a scout should not be required to re do the requirement because he changes units. If the POR has been satisfied, it has been satisfied. As to question 2, the requirements for advancement within a Venturing Crew for Venturing Rank, the requirement for Ordinary, Able or Quartermaster stipulate a 75% attendance. This can not be waived or altered anymore than any other requirement. As for guaranteed continual participation I dont know of anyway to achieve that. If you give them a program that appeals to them they will make time for other things but they will be Sea Scouts, its their choice.

LongHaul

 

[John-in-KC]

Agreeing with LH, but some additional comments:

 

2) Perhaps the right moment for this young man to join is right after the camp season. At the same time, in your role as Advisor/Skipper, helping the organizing youth determine the appropriate interval between meetings is one of your principal tasks.

 

The varsity sports question is also one of scheduling. If the best answer is "a morning and an afternoon" once a month, especially in football season, then hopefully the youth will see or be influenced on their way to a good schedule.

 

My thoughts.

[emb021]

LongHaul pretty much gave the answers I would have.

 

 

[Beavah]

1) I think this is your option. The guidelines for Boy Scout advancement in Sea Scouting state that "Position of responsibility requirements may be met by the Venturer serving as boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, or storekeeper in his ship." (ACP&P p. 39). Nothing particular about accepting signoffs when transferring units.

 

Since the Skipper and the Ship Committee have to certify that the boy met all of the requirements, I'd treat this the same way we treat a merit badge that a boy starts with one counselor and then tries to finish with another. It's the counselor's discretion whether he/she accepts the prior "partial" or re-checks it, because it's the counselor's signature on the final "OK."

 

2)Don't know enough about the Sea Scout advancement requirement, but I assume it's somethin' like 75% over the course of some period of time. It doesn't seem to me like missing a month would affect anything very much. I wouldn't be inclined to flex for this.

 

As for football, etc. it's not really your problem, eh? That's up to the kids and their choices. If you help 'em run a fun and exciting program, they'll make the time.

 

I think, though, that Venturing tends to be more on "kid time" than "adult time", and you'd best get used to it. Kid time for high schoolers means periods of relatively "light" activity followed by periods of impressive effort. So maybe for your ship fall will be a time for a light load: day trips, social evenings, etc., and winter will be "heavier." Ya gotta let the kids settle this. Just share with them the CO's concern (and a bit of talk about honor) and they'll figure it out, eh?

 

[LongHaul]

Beavah,

So even though the boy has completed his POR requirement you feel it would be appropriate to make him re do it in the Ship. The whole 6 months or just part? How about the tenure, but I guess if he has to redo the POR then he'd automatically redo the 6 months active. Would you accept all his merit badges of would he have to redo some of those too? A scout is trustworthy but Scouters are another thing eh? If a boy transfers to you troop from another troop does he have to redo all ranks or just the parts he has completed for the current rank he is working on?

LongHaul

 

[Kahuna]

The 75% is 6 months, 1 year, and 18 months respectively and it is cumulative, so theoretically a member could attend 100% of activities for one year and then go on to QM with a minimal attendance. I don't see this as precluding periods of absence. I know of some Ships that don't even have summer activities because the kids are too dispersed at camps and whatever.

 

You can't alter the requirements, but everything is subject to some interpretation. Of course I'm a lawyer, so everything everywhere is subject to interpretation.

[Eamonn]

CNYScouter

I think you need to slow down a little.

For now I'd put the advancement stuff on hold.

In fact I wouldn't mention it.

I don't think any of us no matter what program we are in can offer our CO any guarantees of how long any one is going to stay with the program.

You might want to talk with the sailing club and explain that some youth will join, see if they like it or not.

If you think back to Wood Badge, right now you and the Ship are in the "Forming Stage". Everyone is very enthusiastic but take my word for it the "Storming Stage" will come.

We have "Lost" some really super Scouts. They were gung ho and really into Sea Scouting, but after a few months they came to the realization that they just could manage yet another activity.

Treat Boy Scouts who want to join the Ship and work toward Eagle Scout Rank, just as a Boy Scout who is transferring from one Troop to another Troop. Request his Advancement Report and take it from there.

We have 7 of our Sea Scouts working on Summer Camp Staff. It's going to be hard, the program will still run through the summer, but we have planned some activities for Saturday afternoon, when they are free -I'm not sure if they will be awake but they will be free.

For now if I were you I'd be thinking of activities that will help recruit new members and as soon as you can either elect or appoint (We appointed until we had enough Scouts for an election.) Petty Officers, get them trained.

The 75% thing is going to be really hard when some of our Sea Scouts take off for college.

Of course it could turn out that the Scouts may decide that they don't want to follow the Sea Scout advancement plan.

They may decide that they are going to work on Venturing awards. Our Ship wanted the Sea Scout awards, uniforms, they decided what sort of Ship they wanted. Who knows down the road they may decide they want to just do something that might well be part of Sea Scouting, but not the entire package.

They can do this and if we are going to truly allow them to be youth led, we should do what we can to support them.

Eamonn.

 

[CNYScouter]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I would love to slow down but these are some of the questions I am being asked by Scouts and parents and the CO and was not sure how to address them.

 

The participation thing is less about advancement and more about being active in the Ship.

Also the manual is not very clear how the participation requirement works.

 

Our council camp is 4+hours from here so the Scout working a camp will not have the opportunity to make a Ships meeting during this time. This year he is a CIT, which is for 4 weeks. Next year if he becomes a full-time camp councilor this turns into 8 weeks.

I just think that this kind of punishes him for doing Scouting things, but I guess it is his choice.

 

I couldnt agree more about Football and sports but you know how some parents are.

 

One of my son's friends would like to join the ship. He would like to do a trip to the Florida Seabase. He expects to join the ship, come to a couple of meeting, have Mom and Dad write a check, have the trip all planned out for him and he shows up and goes. I can't fault him for thinking like this because this is the way the Troop he is in does things.

 

This is the type of thing I think the CO and myself do not want to see. (and not sure how to approach and deal with this)

 

One thing I was looking at for activities for the Fall and Winter months was working on some of the Sea Scout Advancements.

Here in NY, for youth to use a powerboat they need to take a boating safety course and pass a test. This would also fulfill one of the requirements for Apprentice.

Ive already have had offers for boat donations so this is something we will ned to get done.

 

I also have not had the opportunity to take Woodbadge yet.

I will be taking it in Sept. and hope it will help make this stuff clearer.

 

Thanks for the answers.

 

 

 

 

 

[MaScout]

Woodbadge won't clear it up. It isn't unit type specific. Reading, asking in forums like this, and Venturing training are your best bets.

 

In our units, we consider staffing at BSA camps to be "active" -- they are at A Scout function -- same when boys miss for Jambo, NJLIC, etc.

[John-in-KC]

I really like MaScout's idea. Now, keeping with the concept that Venturers should have an ownership stake in the program, I think it reasonable that your officers should be the ones to lock this into Crew/Ship policy.

[LongHaul]

MaScout,

The requirements in Sea Scouts are a little more specific than in Boy Scouts. The requirement is to attend 75% of your ship's meetings and special activities for...... So unless you consider summer camp to be a special ship activity it wouldn't count. The requirement does not say be active with your ship it says attend 75% for your ships meetings and special activities. Actually it depends on how many meetings a week or month the ship has. The scout would not be able to blaze through advancements one right after another but would have ample opportunity to advance even with summer camp and football/sports.

LongHaul

[Eamonn]

LongHaul

is correct about the wording.

We as a Ship will meet through the Summer, mainly meeting to do activities.

Our regular weekly Sunday meetings will be on hold.

Summer Camp lasts 8 weeks, so even if the Summer Camp Staffers don't attend anything for the 8 weeks they are only missing a few meetings.

A new Sea Scout Manual is just about ready to go to print -At least that's what I have been told. The hold up is that there is still a lot of the existing manuals that they need to sell. (Of course only our organization would rise the price of something that they want to move!!)

I don't know but I think when the new book comes out the 75% will be gone.

CNYScouter

You really need to join your nearest Flotilla.

These people really do know about Sea Scouting, far more than your Council or DE.

I think you will find that they are the nicest group of Scouter's you have ever met.

Sea Scouting seems to work best when the Sea Scouts interact with other Sea Scouts.

Sure it means adding a few extra miles to the van, but it really is worth it.

Eamonn.