Why Venturing?

[silver-shark]

"Maybe most people are like Silver-Shark and CubRGr8 and they didn't even know that real Exploring posts existed. Maybe that's why the name went away. I just know that it is a pain to have to continually explain what Venturing Crews are."

 

I agree.. It is a pain with the Venturing Crew and Venture Patrol similarity., and with the Explorer/Exploring similarity.

 

The basis of the name didn't go away though. Explorer Posts do still exist FOG, but they're called LFL/Exploring Posts now. They took the majority of what the Career Awareness Explorer program did in the BSA, and moved it to LFL.

 

"The thing is that Exploring in its many guises (Explorer Scouts, Explorers, Exploring) existed for many years before the creation of career Explorer Posts. Venturing is what Exploring started out as and what it came to be without the career posts."

 

I agree. but since there still are Explorer Posts like the latest LFL/Exploring, that are still basically still doing the same thing, even though they have switched organizations and the name slightly, it only makes sense that they would keep the similar name to what they have been known as since 1982.

 

Although there are a FEW similarities between the Career Explorers and the Venturing Crews, the Venturing Crews are much more like the Explorer/Senior Scout programs of the 30s, 40s and 50s.

 

For more information go to http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/overview.html . It has many details and links to some of the official sites in question along with a pretty complete history of each program.(This message has been edited by silver-shark)

[NJCubScouter]

FatOldGuy, in the absence of someone here actually knowing the official answer to your question, I think a good theory would be this. The BSA may have thought that the volunteers who serve as sponsors and advisers to "career" Explorer Posts -- the highest-profile of which are the Police Explorers -- might get ticked off if they changed the name to something else. I don't know if any of them would have gone so far as to give up the program over a name change, but maybe they would have been less enthusiastic. Maybe the BSA didn't want to have to explain it to anybody. So instead they renamed the "traditional" component of Exploring to Venturing, probably in the belief that the only people who would get ticked off, or in reality just confused, would be the committed BSA volunteers (like us) who might post our questions and complaints on the Internet but in "real life," wouldn't go anywhere.

 

And/or: Maybe the "traditional" Exploring -- in other words "outdoor" or "high adventure" posts, had dwindled down to very, very few anyway, and they figured they needed to jump-start it, and the new name was part of it. I do not have any actual numbers on Exploring, but that is just my impression -- that Exploring had basically become career Exploring (including Police Explorers) and Sea Scouts... and career Exploring was spun off to LFL, and Sea Scouts are Sea Scouts and wouldn't care about the name of the "division" they were assigned to.

 

Are those good theories?

[Fat Old Guy]

"Although there are a FEW similarities between the Career Explorers and the Venturing Crews, the Venturing Crews are much more like the Explorer/Senior Scout programs of the 30s, 40s and 50s. "

 

You seem to be forgetting or ignoring that there were regular Exploring posts that had nothing to do with careers in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's.

 

The web site that you referenced states, "This was pretty much a name change, as the Venturing program was almost identical to the pre-1998 Exploring program in most ways."

 

BTW, Career Awareness Exploring was a totally different animal than Exploring.

 

"it only makes sense that they would keep the similar name to what they have been known as since 1982. "

 

82 was the creation of Career Awareness Exploring, Career Exploring posts predated that by decades.

 

(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[Fat Old Guy]

NJCubScouter, maybe you've hit the nail on the head. It could be that the Police Depts. said, "we like having Police Explorers and we don't want to have our program called Learning For Life because that sounds all new age and wussie and even though we have homosexual po-leese officers, they ain't wussie. Okay, so they do wear lace but that's a different story." I'm sure that companies like USX, and Eli Lilly didn't give a hoot what their Posts were called.

 

Faced with this opposition, BSA folded like a cheap tent and created Venturing to increase the confusion level of both the public and Scouters.

[dsteele]

Inflamatory exptemporation will not drive some of us to advance our theories or knowledge of the memos from 1998 from the National Council when we had to label Explorer Posts as being properly classified as Venture Crews or to move them to Learning for Life.

 

"Folded like a cheap tent", I would offer as an example of inflamatory extemporation.

 

DS

[NJCubScouter]

But dsteele, I never enganged in any inflammatory extemporation on this issue (nor do I on any issue, at least not outside the Issues and Politics board), and I'm curious about it too. Can't I have some of your theories and knowledge about why the name Venturing was chosen, instead of leaving the "traditional" programs with the Explorer label and renaming what was left as part of LFL?

 

I suppose not. But it's worth a try.

[Fat Old Guy]

"extemporation"? Mr. Steele, I had been under the impression that you were an educated man. I have many dictionaries and none list "extemporation" but they do list "extemporization" which is an impromptu act. Perhaps that's what you meant but I did nothing in an impromtu manner.

 

In any case, what you do with your knowledge is your decision. We are content to speculate and start rumors. As we all know, after a while, rumors become fact. You may interrupt the process with the injection of fact but, as I stated, that is your choice.

 

 

[dsteele]

NJ -- I'm glad I read your post twice. At first I took it to be an attack, but now I believe it was not.

 

As has been said, Exploring was under the traditional BSA programs like Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting until August of 1998.

 

Explorer posts tended to fall into two broad categories -- those based on hobbies and/or high adventure -- and those that were based on hands-on-career education.

 

There were lots of Law Enforcement Posts (some call them Police Explorers) and firefighters, etc. most of which were chartered to municipalities or other organizations.

 

Now we're getting into theory backed up by some information:

 

In the late nineties a municipality was sued because of it's Explorer Post which then had the requirement of a belief in a supreme being in order to join. Other suits were going on, but I'm only familiar with this particular one. In fact, the individual leading the charge is rumored to be the individual that sued the village previously to have the cross removed from the Village Seal.

 

If you'll recall, the BSA was also fighting the battle that ultimately led to the Supreme Court decision. Tensions were high and I believe the National Council (which is made up of volunteers and professionals like any other council) took a good hard look at the difference between career education and teaching values.

 

The Church youth group using the Exploring program and the high adventure explorer post look a whole lot different than the Police Explorers. They have different purposed. Both are good.

 

So we needed to split them into traditional BSA type program and Learning for Life career education. Literally, each council had to submit a list of which was which in August of 1998.

 

Now, to the original question -- why the name Venturing? Or the varation -- why not leave Exploring name as the traditional and come up with something new for the career programs?

 

Let me answer, as best I can, the second question first. My theory is that a large portion of the career posts were police and fire. I could look up the numbers, but it's Friday evening and I'm getting tired. The police and fire explorers have uniforms -- that say Exploring, and are likely to have a post flag -- with Exploring on it. Possibly letterhead, etc. The uproar if they had to change all their "stuff" or felt they had to change all their stuff would have been bad at every level.

 

Now, on the other hand, the high adventurer explorer posts tended to have no uniform. They didn't have any sort of advancement available, and program support was weak. So there was an opportunity to build a new program.

 

But what to call it? Many other Scouting organizations around the world have names similar or the same as Venture. Perhaps our name for this new program should echo others around the world because they might actually travel to other countries and would be more easily recognized there.

 

Whoops -- we're already using Venture Patrols. Yes. But think about how long it takes change to take hold in the BSA (and I'm not referring to attempts to change the standards of membership. I'm referring to program changes in this context.) For evidence of this, I point to a question under the thread about safe swim requiring a BSA lifeguard -- from the recent past. That was required for about six months ten years ago -- but someone remembered it and thought it was current.

 

Venture patrols were introduced in 1989 or 1990. Took a long time to catch on and still very few earn, buy or wear the Venture letter on their merit badge sash.

 

So, ultimately the National Council (again, volunteers and professionals like any other council) decided the new program will be called Venturing and will be different than Venture patrols in troops.

 

DS

[scoutldr]

Did you mean to say "Varsity letter"? We have no Varsity units in our Council...wonder why BSA keeps it alive?

[dsteele]

Sctldr:

 

Actually, I was hoping to avoid further confusion by avoiding mention of the Varsity letter. There is one, and Varsity is also, as well as being a patrol in a Boy Scout troop (perhaps "is" should be "was") a stand alone unit. Varsity patrols and Venture patrols were rolled out at the same time (Sports leaning and high adventure leaning) in the late '80's-early '90's.

 

Actually, I think you bring up a good point. Both terminology exists for an older boy optional patrol in a troop (Varsity and Venture patrols) or as stand alone units -- Varsity Teams or Venture Crews. Perhaps this is another reason the National Council (AKA BSA) did not see the terminology to be a problem.

 

DS

[ExplorerCaptainLafferty]

I am the Captain, (and post president) of my Police Explorer Post in Sylvania, Ohio. I do not know alot about the Venturing program, but I can tell you, my post is still a part of scouts. Learning for life is a part of both the Boy Scouts, and the Girl Scouts. Our charter comes from the BSA, our regulations for activities and procedures come from our local Erie Shores Councilmaster, and we share the same spirit and quality that scouting was founded on. The rank of Eagle Scout is proudly displayed by recipients on their uniform with a red white and blue police commendation bar, and we also apply for and achieve the quality unit award. Our group accepts both male and female Explorers, which I think is possibly a big difference from Venturing. I assure you that anyone who has doubts about the scouting spirit and foundation being tought in the Explorer program is sadly mistaken. I advanced through the cubscouts, and then to the rank of First Class Boy Scout. Our uniforms may be blue, and I may wear a badge, but my post and I are and always will be "Scouts." "Our Best Today for a Better Tomorrow." Explorers Forever.

[hops_scout]

Venturing allows females as well as males.

[NJCubScouter]

ExplorerCaptainLafferty, first of all, welcome to the forum. Second of all, I want to make sure you understand that the questions I ask below are not meant in any sort of a negative way toward you. I just want to make sure I understand some things I thought I understood, but maybe I don't. You sound like a very fine young man who is a good example of the spirit and true ideals of Scouting, and of special service to the community, regardless (as you say) of the color of your uniform.

 

Here is what I want to understand. You mention members of your Police Explorer Post wearing the Eagle rank badge. Are you saying that members of your post are currently earning Boy Scout ranks, as members of the post? Or, are they also registered as members of a Boy Scout troop or Venture crew and earning the ranks through that other unit? Or, are these Eagles that were earned a few years ago. The reason I ask these questions is that it was my understanding that as of a certain date (the one I have seen on the Internet, not always an authoritative source, is Dec. 31, 1999), Explorers were no longer eligible to earn Boy Scout ranks unless they also were registered in a troop or crew. Maybe that is incorrect. What is your understanding?

 

And maybe I shouldn't ask this question, but are some of the people earning Eagle, shall we say, female? Actually, if the answer to that is yes, I'd prefer you not answer it, since you have provided enough information to identify your unit.

[ExplorerCaptainLafferty]

NJCubScouter,

Thank you for your question about Exploring. The members of my post who wear the commendation bar for the rank of eagle scout, had already recieved the rank before joining our post. I am not sure if it is possible to be enrolled in a troop and an explorer post at the same time, (and still be able to advance in rank,) but in order for an explorer to recieve their commendation bar for Eagle Scout, the requirements are that they must have already recieved it through the BSA, and they must have one year of service to the post. The commendation bar only signifies that the explorer is an Eagle Scout, and is therefore able to proudly display this on their uniform. The best way to think of it, is that If an officer was injured in the line of duty with a department, and then began working for another department, he would still wear his purple heart. The eagle scout commendation just carries over from one uniform to the next. On the issue of females, they are also given the same commendation award for achieving the highest rank in girl scouts, and just the same, theirs carries over. If you would like more info on the Explorer program, it's ties with the boyscouts, and the awards that we earn, you can visit the learning for life website, at http://www.learning-for-life.org/exploring/lawenforcement/index.html

 

Thank you.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

" I am not sure if it is possible to be enrolled in a troop and an explorer post at the same time, (and still be able to advance in rank,)"

 

It is conceivable that a boy could be registered with a Boy Scout Troop, Venturing Crew and an Explorer Post since all three are different programs. If that was the case, he could advance in Boy Scouts or Venturing.