Should Venturing drop the Boy Scout ranks to Eagle

[dana_renner]

I have two questions about rank and advancement in Venturing

but first I realize that advancement and recognition in scouting is up to the youth. Now that being said here goes. Do Venturing Crews

encourage Venturing recognition and awards much? And, should crews still have where a male Boy Scout still can earn his Star,Life and

Eagle in the Crew? I believe if a young man or woman in a crew or ship is interested in earning awards then ok. But I also believe that we sometimes overwhelm youth with a myriad of scouting even in

Venturing. I know that some crews don't encourage advancement and then some do. Venturing advancements should be there if youth want to earn them. But Boy Scout ranks should not be in the Venturing Program. Also Sea Scouts just earn Sea Scout Ranks and not Venturing recognitions and Boy Scout ranks. I guess this is just to keep the Older Male Boy Scouts in a BSA Program. I believe that the Silver Award should be Eagle equivalent. The Quartermaster is.

[purcelce]

Do Venturing Crews encourage Venturing recognition and awards much? In my crew we do encourage it. However it's up to the youth to come to me to get things started. Awards enhance our program, it's not the program.

 

And, should crews still have where a male Boy Scout still can earn his Star,Life and Eagle in the Crew? Yes.

 

Cary P

Crew 805 Advisor

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Hi Dana, long time no see

 

Anyway, I do not think those in a Venture Crew should be able to earn any Boy Scout rank from the Crew. If they want to be dual registered, fine, let them earn Boy Scout ranks in Boy Scouts and Venturing recognitions in Venturing.

 

Venturing has enough of an identity problem trying to differentiate itself from a Venture Patrol and a Boy Scout Troop and having Venturers also earning Boy Scout ranks merely adds to the chaos.

 

Then there is the issue that we say Venturing Crews are youth lead, there is no Venturemaster as there is a Cubmaster and a Scoutmaster, only a Venture Crew Advisor. We tell out youth that its to be demoratically run, that all are equal and then we say by the way, the boys can earn up to Eagle as a Venturer, but you girls, well since you can't ever be fitst class Boy Scouts, you can't earn Eagle. The girls can earn Bronzes, Golds, Silvers, etc. participate in all aspects of Venturing, but they can't earn Eagle. Why even allow the males to do so. If the Venturing model cant exist without Boy Scouts Eagle, its time to rethink the concept.

 

Then again, thats my opinion I could be wrong

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[scoutldr]

Lest the youth become demoraticalized, I say let them earn Eagle if they're of a mind to. As a 14 year old Life scout and SPL, I transferred to an Explorer Post and continued to earn Eagle in 1970, due in no small part to my Post advisor's encouragement. During that time, the Post went co-ed, and almost without exception, the girls were also Sr. Girl Scouts and went on to earn their First Class awards (the highest GS award at that time). After joining the Post, I completed 3 50 miler trips, and completed the same training that volunteer firefighters and rescue squadsmen took. Without that program, I probably would have dropped out, because the troop I was in had no older scouts, no high adventure program, and nothing left for a 14 year old Life scout to do, except teach knots to the incoming Webelos.

 

FWIW, I think the current proliferation of Venturing awards is excessive and almost ludicrous.

[knottedplace]

To the best of my knowledge if you are in Venturing then you earn Venturing awards. If you are in Boy Scouts then you earn Boy scout ranks & awards. We do not have an Star Life nor Eagle award in the Venturing Program. If a boy Does not earn his eagle in Boy Scout then he does not earn it. That being said if he is in Venturing then he may earn the Silver Award which is equal to an Eagle award.

[scoutldr]

Welcome to the forums, knottedplace. But you are incorrect. If a Boy Scout is First Class when he joins a Crew, he may continue the trail to Eagle. He does not need to maintain dual registration. Please check your facts.

[Kahuna]

I can't speak for the other Venture programs, but it is absolutely vital to Sea Scouting that boys who have earned First Class be allowed to continue advancement to Eagle. Dual registration would be too much to expect from many of them and they do want to earn their Eagle before they leave Scouting. Of course, they have an extra three years to complete Quartermaster, if they choose to do that. I have never been an advancement oriented leader, but I certainly encourage any boys who have reached Life Scout to continue to work on their Eagle, because I know they will regret it later in life if they don't.

[dana_renner]

Please correct me if I am wrong, Is that Venturing is about youth run programming, Venturers elect their own youth leadership and can plan their own program and they can Hike the Appalachian Trail or Canoe Lake Erie if that is what the crew elects to do. Also young men and women work together to get the program going. Can youth elect to include a crew wide Recognition program as well. Venturing is also about Leadership and learning to lead at a future time and to carry these skills with them as they leave the crew and head to college, the military, or their future careers. I do believe that Venturing Recognition do enhance their program but I believe that if a young person is a Venturer then Venturing recognition is all that is awarded in the Crew. This is not to say that young men and women in a crew can't be dual registered in a Boy Scout Troop or Girl Scout Troop and if they are then they should earn their troop ranks and awards in their troops. the Venturing Silver Award should also be given status that is equivalent to the BSA Eagle Award the same way that Sea Scout Quartermaster is.

[scoutldr]

Everyone's opinions notwithstanding, the youth crew members can NOT elect to disallow national rules. The national rule (currently) is that a male Venturer can continue the trail to Eagle if he is at least First Class when he joins the crew. The Crew Committee is obligated to provide BOR and Advisor conferences to allow for that. Those who disagree can make their opinions known to the National Venturing Committee at BSA. Meanwhile, you must deliver the program...even the parts you disagree with.

[Eamonn]

I know what is in place.

I also know that as long as what's in place we have to go along with.

At present in the Ship we have six Life Scouts, five say that they want to complete their Eagle Scout Rank with there home Troops (Four different Troops)

I'm happy to go along with that, which is just as well as I don't have much say in it anyway!!

I'm a little unsure about the other Lad.I'm also a little unsure if we as a new Ship are ready to do all that is needed for him to complete his Eagle Scout Rank.

At this time we seem to be getting older Scouts moving from the Troop to the Ship. If they were 14 maybe things would be different?

With so much to do in both the Sea Scouting side of things and the Venturing side, I'd be happy to leave Boy Scout Awards in the Boy Scout program.

There is a Ship in Maryland (I think SSS 1942) That has some sort of Cabin Boy and Cabin Girl program up and running. They have registered as a Boy Scout Troop and A GSUSA Mariner Girl Scout Group.They are recruiting 13 year old boys and girls and working all the programs. The Ship has a very impressive record, but it must take a lot of the adults.

Eamonn.

 

[Crew21_Adv]

Dana,(et al)

 

Greetings!

 

IMHO...

Who has said that the Silver Award is less than the Eagle Scout Rank?

 

These Scouters should visit a Crew and help advise or consult with a Venturer achieving their Bronze, Gold and Silver Award. That may the only way for them to see the value of the Silver.

 

Regarding recognition and awards. Yes, we encourage it. I call it educational fun, of course BP called it a "Game with a Purpose". If we did not pursue a learning experience along with a leadership experience, we would still be eating pizza, going Go-karting every weekend, and listen to the youth talk about "who is dating who" at the High School.

 

All good in moderation, but when that was all we did. We provided the same service as town recreation center. No difference. We might as well been a Keystone Group, Girls and Boys Club of America (yet another good organization, but a different organzation from BSA) and let the city pay for our trips.

 

We maintain a relatively young crew, due to our geographic location. Although the program is till 21, we have no one older than 18, and 15 is the largest population.

 

These youth listen well, but the do not desire to allow any other youth to take leadership as an activity chair. Just to discuss Go-karting takes an hour and a half, and everyone has to take part in this topic.

 

The Venturing Handbook has a paragraph insiding, letting the youth know that it is adult association, and the Advisors may plan for a short time, while the Venturers are spinning up.

 

I have told my crew, I am planning, and when you are ready to take it from me... Just let me know. It's all theirs... They have taken me up on that for most events.

 

I am really asking them to allow one Venturing member be an "Activity Chair", per event, and not to have a subcommittee of 15 planners. Once one "Activity Chair" leads an event under consultation of one Advisor/Associate Advisor. Then they will truely take ownership of their program.

 

Finally, I believe the boys may be allowed to earn their Star, Life and Eagle Rank Awards in Venturing. However the focus of the program should still be Venturing Crew Activities, ultimately leading everyone to be thinking about the Silver Award (which we hold in the same prestigious status and honor as the Eagle Rank).

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

[scoutldr]

Agree with Eamonn and Crew21. I didn't say that the crew/ship program had to revolve around Boy Scout advancements. Once they join a crew, they're on their own. When they are ready for the BOR, they can let you know. MB work is supposed to be done mostly outside of the unit program anyway.

[emb021]

"Please correct me if I am wrong, Is that Venturing is about youth run programming, Venturers elect their own youth leadership and can plan their own program and they can Hike the Appalachian Trail or Canoe Lake Erie if that is what the crew elects to do. Also young men and women work together to get the program going."

 

Yes, that describes the Venturing program. Have you read the venturing literature? are you involved in any way with Venturing?

 

 

"Can youth elect to include a crew wide Recognition program as well."

 

Not sure what you mean. There already existes a Venturing Recognition program: Bronze-Gold-Silver, along with Ranger, Quest, and Trust. Its the choice of EACH Venturer if they want to pursue these awards. The Crew can choice to build their program around these awards so that everyone in the crew earns them (or have the opportunity to do so).

 

"Venturing is also about Leadership and learning to lead at a future time and to carry these skills with them as they leave the crew and head to college, the military, or their future careers. I do believe that Venturing Recognition do enhance their program but I believe that if a young person is a Venturer then Venturing recognition is all that is awarded in the Crew."

 

While the part about leadership is true, I don't understand why you wish to limit things to Venturing recognition. There should be no problem with Venturers earning the President's Volunteer Service Award or the Congressional Award, etc. Why limit their recognition to just 'Venturing' recognition. That is NOT how the Method of Recognition works in Venturing.

 

"This is not to say that young men and women in a crew can't be dual registered in a Boy Scout Troop or Girl Scout Troop and if they are then they should earn their troop ranks and awards in their troops."

 

If they are dual registered, that is what they are doing. However, some boys are ONLY in a Venturing Crew, and they can work toward earning Star-Life-Eagle as a Venturer/Sea Scout, and that should be fine.

 

"the Venturing Silver Award should also be given status that is equivalent to the BSA Eagle Award the same way that Sea Scout Quartermaster is. "

 

Uh, it does have that status. That is why it has a knot. So I don't understand your point. Since it is very new compared to Eagle Scout (around since 1910) and Quartermaster (since 1925), many organizations aren't aware of it, so it doesn't yet have the cache of those, but that is slowly changing.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I'm too close to this to think about it at a policy level. My son is working his Eagle Leadership Service Project as I write this, in fact, tonight he takes his team to the local VA Hospital for their first concert with them. He enjoys being in the Crew because that's where his classmates are. He enjoys the activites Venturing permits that are either "shades of gray" or disallowed by G2SS for Boy Scouts.

 

Even so, he's glad to be on staff at Scout Camp all this coming summer.

 

What matters to me is the young man who will soon take his station in life: He'll be 18 in 15 months, and he'll be a great young man ready to be part of the community. Scouting was a key part of that. The reward is more than worth the labor.

[dana_renner]

John in KC Good Luck to your son he sounds like he is having a blast and will achieve his goal.