Not wild about the Venturing program, but....

[Eamonn]

Some people do their best thinking in the shower,I seem to do mine while walking the dog.

We go out everyday,I have just under eight acres and next door we have the Antique Farm Equipment Association. They have sixty-six acres. They are a nice group, made up mostly of old farmers and tractor enthusiasts.

We have to get along as they can't get to their property without using a road that is on my property and I own land which to get too I have to go through their property. I can get to mine but have to drive a couple of miles. They could talk nice to the Frick Foundation and see about getting a right of way from them.

We never ever talk about any of this, they have been next door for about 12 years. They have a couple of festivals a year, a few tractor pulls and are involved with a apple festival where they make apple cider. This seems to be their main source of income.

They have a enormous big sawmill which they have used to make boards with and have built a fair number of buildings. Some are for storing the equipment, but they have buildings where they sell food and soft drinks and a meeting building. None of this is used in the winter and isn't used very much the rest of the year.

I think with all that land they really need to charter a Scouting unit.

When I take a long hard look at the Troops in the District, I see that the program they are offering to the older Scouts is not good, in fact it is really bad.

The logical thing would be to start a Crew. These guys next door would I'm sure if asked by myself go for it, especially if they knew that I was going to be part of it. Not that I'm that good, but it comes under the heading; the devil you know.

I however have a problem, I really don't like the Venturing program. Maybe I have been involved with Troops and Packs for too long? I am unwilling to change the program into something that I think it should be and think might work. That would be wrong and isn't the way I do things.

I like the idea of having a group of Boy Scouts, who would if their Troops had such a thing as a Venturing Patrol, all coming together to do more adventurous and activities that they can't do in their troop.

I could I suppose start a new Troop and let it be known that this was the area that we were going to follow, but that wouldn't be fair to the troops.

I feel bad because I know without too much effort I could have 20 youth at the get go and would have 50 in next to no time (Within a year)

Maybe I'm missing something, but I need (I need) a program that is more structured than the Venturing program seems to be. I like the advancement program to be an in your face program. I like real uniforms, not this free what ever the group feels like this month. I like patrols. None of which Venturing offers.

At this time I know that the problem is me and the only person to fix it or do anything about it is me. But I don't want to start something and put the time and effort in to it, while all the time moaning and groaning about how much I dislike it.

Eamonn.

[BadenP]

Eamonn

 

You hit the nail on the head as to why most SM's should not be Venturing leaders. It is a very different style of program that attracts a coed group of older teens who want to have fun, plan activities and could care less about advancement or uniforms. But you see that is also the beauty of this program, it brings teens in who never would ordinarily have joined scouts and those teens who feel they have outgrown scouting. It gives us advisors a chance to instill some real values and responsibilities into these teens who otherwise would be drinking, drugging,and partying with their contemporaries.

 

I think you will find after a time that instead of earning badges these teens will be thanking you for giving them a chance to stretch their abilities beyond what they felt capable of doing, succeeding, and sometimes failing, and in the end turning into responsible and caring adults because of your guidance. That to me is more worthwhile than a mountain of merit badges. Yes it is a very different style of program, but I feel you will soon discover, as I did, that the values of scouting go much deeper than uniforms and camping. These teens need this program now much more than ever before in providing them direction into becoming better adults with a solid core of values. I started out skeptical as you and now I can't think of another program that I would rather be involved with. There are also advancement badges available to those who want to earn them, but they are not the focus as it is in Boy Scouts. About 65% of my teens have earned at least one advancement. Eamonn I tell you from experience give Venturing a real chance and I think your teens will really surprise you, and you will surprise yourself.

[NIscouter]

Eamonn - I too see the lack of offerings for older scouts as a problem, as scouters have since the beginning. I am, as part of my ticket for WB, in the process of setting up a Venturing Patrol in our troop. I sometimes wonder if I will move from this endevour to setting up a Venture Crew in a few years. The Venture program is, in my mind, a bit too loose in structure and does not appear to focus enough on the charactor side (maybe part of my ignorance of crews) No matter, it is important to have something for the older scouts to be excited about. I like the idea of retaining the older scouts in a troop, as thier experience and memories of the past is an important component of building a lagacy for a strong troop. I am playing around with the concept that a Venture Patrol could be a "ad-hoc" patrol for the older boys, pulling them to plan and participate every other month in more challanging activities, and rejoining the troop on the other months to impart leadership and fire up the younger scouts with tales of adventure :> I do share your concern as to the potential, in your situation, to drain the district troops of older scouts and cause problems with these troops. But, as an old saying goes, if you're not making waves, you're not underway. Me, I'm halfway across the ocean!

[dana_renner]

Eamonn;If you are unsure about Venturing, why not try Sea Scouting

they are a part of the Venturing Division and do have uniforms and

advancement and are broken down into crews (similar to patrols) and

are co-ed and are ages 14-21. The Sea Scout Manual outlines the program and they can do a landship. If you can get them water occasionally. There are many activities they can do. The Northeast

Region has quite a few activities for Sea Scouts. Oh by the way ships and crews can be either all male, all female or co-ed and that is up to the sponsoring organization.In either case check out the literature for both Sea Scouts and Venturing and think what you would be doing for the older aged youth in your area.

[Eamonn]

I don't know port from starboard!!

While we do have the Youghiogheny River running through the District, I really know nothing about Sea Scouts or Sea Scouting, there were a good number of Sea Scouting units in the UK, but I never had much dealings with them.

I of course see the need for a program for older Scouts and the potential of serving more youth from our community. I have wearing my District hat been instrumental in starting a number of new Venturing units, in fact one of these is the Crew that it seems that everyone looks upon as being the model of what a good crew should be. That's the good news the bad news is that I also helped start two crews that only lasted a year and never really got off the ground.

It is easy to blame poor leadership and there was some of that, but I can't help thinking that the adults were much like me and the program just wasn't something that they could sink their teeth into.

Plan B, would of course be to start a new Troop, which in time could offer activities for every age group, but would do nothing for the Scouts who are to my mind being cheated out of some of what Scouting could offer them.

BadenP

I really don't think I have that big a problem with a coed program. I have to admit to having never worked with young girls. I have worked with female leaders and feel sure that I am in no way a sexist.

What you see as the beauty of this program,is exactly what I don't like.

I'm not saying it doesn't work. The Crew that is doing well proves that it can and does work.

My problem is that I see this need and there really is a need, but the people who are in need are happy being Boy Scouts, they just are not being offered the fun and the adventure that could be theirs.

I could very well be a stuffed shirt, but I like Boy Scouting, and the methods of Boy Scouting and the Boy Scout program.

While there are people who were great Cubmasters and Den Leaders, but never really understood and in some cases never really liked their new role. I feel that would be me in Venturing.

It could very well be that what I want to do just can't be done.

I feel certain that there is little or no chance of changing the way our Scoutmasters do business, they are set in their ways.

It would be wrong of me to go out of my way to "Poach" their older Scouts, but the truth is that many of the Scouts are doing very little with the Troops and very few will stick around much after their 16th birthday. There are a few like my son who is going on 17, but really the only thing making him stay is his involvement with the Order of the Arrow. He is now a JASM, but has no real interest in what the Troop is doing, because they have done it so many times. Almost like the Batman TV show "Same Bat time, same Bat Channel". But last week he went and bought a new pair of long Scout pants. The Troop seems to have an open door policy once you are 16 you can look in and visit, tag along if you want, but nothing or no one seems willing to go out of their way to do anything with these guys.

Two years back a ASM decided that he liked the green shirt and started a Venture Crew. They sat around for months writing by-laws and had a T-shirt made, they helped with the running of a District Camporee, went skiing once and they only done that because I drove them, their leader was too busy and they organized a weekend camp-out. The Crew President, was very much the outdoor type.When I dropped OJ, off at the camp site he had all sorts of books on wilderness survival along with vast amounts of rope?? But when I looked in the building that they were using there was a video game system and a pile of DVD's a mile high. That weekend was the last thing they ever did. Soon after everything fell apart and this year the Crew didn't recharter.

Of course the problem wasn't the video game system, the DVD's or the wilderness survival, it was poor leadership all the way around.

Yes kids that age like to play video games and watch TV,and while I don't have a problem with the small electronic things that some kids bring to camp, I somehow can't see me helping to organize a camp-out where the guys empty out their bedroom and bring the contents to camp!!

While this example only shows the lack of leadership and poor communication, the fact is that both the Wilderness Survival group and the video group were both doing something which is acceptable within the Venturing program. While there is a lot to be said about being social, I don't think that a Scout camp is the right setting.

Eamonn.

[dkurtenbach]

Funny thing about the Venturing program. It is so broad and flexible that it could also comfortably include an all-male crew that wears the BSA spruce green/gray uniform and focuses on the Venturing Advancement awards. True, Venturing crews have a different organizational system (President and other officers) that doesn't use patrols, so you can't quite duplicate that aspect of Boy Scouting. You would have to set the crew up from the beginning with the uniform-wearing, advancement-centered program as something that couldn't be altered by the crew -- and yes, that can be done. The Chartered Organization (not the youth) decides the purposes of the crew and can set parameters for the program, so long as they are within BSA rules and policies. A lot of folks are so enamored of Venturing's flexibility, and so frightened of "interfering" with the youth's program choices that their crews have no central purpose or vision (which are supposed to be maintained by the adult leadership). The result is "pizza" crews that quickly fall apart.

 

Nevertheless, if you are uncomfortable with Venturing and don't want to pursue that option, the question is how to establish a district-wide adventure program for Boy Scouts. Some options:

 

(1) Rather than charter a unit, set up a weekend adventure program for older Scouts through the District Activities Committee.

 

(2) Rather than charter a unit, set up a weekend camping/adventure program for older Scouts through the Order of the Arrow. After all, one of the purposes of OA is to promote unit camping. This program could be designed to show older Scouts how to develop and improve the camping/adventure programs in their own units.

 

(3) Charter a "shell" Venturing crew to serve as the operating "board" for organizing, overseeing, and operating the camping/adventure weekends. The activity participants would still be Boy Scouts from their own troops; the ones who are interested could dual register with the crew to help manage the events.

 

Dan K

[SWScouter]

Eamonn,

 

You might take a look at starting a Varsity Crew. It's for boys 14-18 and has the same advancement as Boy Scouts but with a more high adventure bent. Varsity crews have squads, similar to how troops have patrols.

 

The Varsity Scout program tends to be more for the LDS but it may work for what you seem to be looking for. Also, it may appear that you are "poaching" the older boys from the troops, which, I know is a concern of yours.

 

SWScouter

[resqman]

Maybe you will be poaching the older boys but if the Boy Scout program is not keeping them interested, they be leaving BSA all together.

 

I am not familiar with all of the Venturing programs but when I was in 30 years ago, we started an Explorer Post.

At the time we designed our own uniform and decided upon a topic/theme. We choose first aid and high adventure.

 

We limited membership to only 20 males in our charter. We encouraged all members to continue and earn their Eagle. Since we had choosen first aid, we began taking first aid classes from the Red Cross. Each class was more difficult and a patch was available. While it was not the same as earning rank within Boy Scouts, it was more similar to merit badges. We arranged for various medically oriented organizations to make presentations and learning sessions to broaden our skills.

 

So we had a program of skills to learn and master. There was a progression of skills. There were badges to wear on the uniforms. We also acted as the primary first aid stations for all council and district events. Otherwise we lead more adventurous trips.

 

Many of the members had been to Philmont so we went to Sea Base. It became an annual summer trip. We went white water rafting, canoeing, soaring (engineless plane flying), snow skiing. Several spring breaks we camped at Civil War battle fields and hiked all the trails to earn Veteran hiker awards. We would set up a base camp and hike the various trails each day.

 

So we combined the outdoors of Boy Scouting with a theme of First Aid to provide learning and goals.

 

As I understand Venturing, you could do a similar thing where you have uniforms of your own design, a program of your choosing and still involve them in outdoors activities.

 

By poaching the older boys from troops, it also opened up leadership positions within those troops so the younger could advance. Most of our members would have probably dropped out of scouting had it not been for the Post.

 

Oh by the way, at one point, all members were Eagle scouts. There were lots of ideas and lots of things got accomplished. Fond memories.

 

[SWScouter]

I should have said Varsity Scout Team, not Crew. I apologize for the mistake.

 

SWScouter

[mdutch]

I am currently the VP Program of the only active venturing crew in our district (there is one inactive crew that was created by the OA for the purpose of not having 0 crews charter this past year). Anyway, we were formed this past January sort of as a spring off of a troop (same number, some of the same members, different CO). Things seem to be going pretty well. We have a former SM who wanted a unit for his daughter to join as our Advisor. So far we have done a bowling night, a day hike, and are having a whitewater rafting trip this weekend. I think that the Crew provides a great place for youth who are interested in more high adventure type activites, which they aren't able to get with their own troop. My troop really doesn't have enough older scouts to pull of a high adventure activity, but the crew has enough people. You are able to get people to join a crew who don't want to wear a uniform (plenty don't join BS because of this).

However, I do agree with you initial statements. Venturing has different meathods of reaching the aims of building character, developing citizenship, and fostering personal fitness.

[juris]

Well, well you can not pleae every one. I only have experience with old explorer program. My Asst. Scoutmaster became an Exp.Advisor, becouse we did not know what to do with high ranking and leaership over qualified scouts who were reaching close to the age of eighteen. They did not want to leave this great unit and their friends. So we created this Post, with the theme " To be service to the troop " They had their own activities, and they kept non scout type new comers out of the post. ( council disagreed )The president of the Post told me, that they did not want to be baby sitters for these inexperiernced teenagers. Most all of them were Eagles,Life or Stars, and proud of it. Sorry had to run

[johndaigler]

Eamonn,

 

squarepeg - round hole?

 

Interesting challenge for you. You seem to like your square pegs, . . . well, . . . square. How much can you soften the edges and still be comfortably square?

 

Definitely time to think out of the box. For you and, maybe, for BSA. How about something along the lines of an experimental test site? There are any number of ways to take the experiment, but the point is to create a Unit whose experiences will help us all grow.

 

(I'll use "crew" for simple consistency, but this is not your father's venturing!)

 

 

It could be:

 

A Crew which focuses on teaching the Program (patrol method, etc) to neighboring troops.

 

A Crew which focuses on supporting Cub Programs.

 

4 Crews meeting monthly (1 each week) made up of homogenous-Troop Scouts that are being prepared to become Adult Scouters - volunteer or professional.

 

A Crew which is given specific experiences to consider and use on a trial basis, in order to give feedback to national. A Research and Development team, similar to a test kitchen for a food manufacturer, or the lab guys for a pharmaceutical co.

 

A Crew which tests Merit Badge requirements and considers new MBs and develops their requirements.

 

A Crew which develops "Accredited" and "Quality" Unit criteria.

 

A Crew which teaches high adventure skills to Units getting ready for their big events.

 

A Crew which dedicates itself to keeping alive the lore, history and traditions of Scouting.

 

A Crew which becomes experts and counselors for Webelos activity pins.

 

A Crew which tests new equipment being considered for "Scoutstuff.org".

 

A Crew which tests equipment from 3rd party sellers.

 

A Crew which trains COs.

 

I'm sure there are many more ideas out there - and many Scouters who could add to the possibilities.

 

This could truly be the best thing you do in your Scouting career! What creative possibilities - WHAT FUN! What a great growing opportunity for the boys, the BSA and you!

 

We've talked about "Stewardship" before. We all have lasting impact on a boy or two, and if we're lucky, on a Unit or two. This could be Stewardship on a Program and National Organization level.

 

I wish I lived near enough to be a part of the process!

 

jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)