correct terms for...

[qwazse]

Ditto what BP said. I have a hard enough time convincing the youth that they are Venturers in a Venturing program. They aren't going to buy that I'm anything other than a Scouter.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

[UCEagle72]

Actually, since all adults that participate in Venturing need to take "Venturing Leader Specific Training" to be considered "trained" (not sea scouts) - Advisors & Committee alike -- then I think "Advisors" is just fine for the Venturing Adult Volunteers (Sea Scouts is a different matter).

 

[BadenP]

UC Eagle

 

Not only is your premise wrong and goes counter to the National Venturing program it just doesn't make sense, all adult Venturers are NOT Advisors. It is like calling all sea scout adults Swabbies, which might be appropriate in your case, lol.

[qwazse]

Six years ago, I would have thought BP was splitting hairs. But I've experienced committee members trying to advise, and it doesn't go well. If they took VLST, they would know that they are "consultants" (sort of like DDHII described in that 6-year-old post).

 

MC's who act as consultants do give advise in their specialty (be it treasuring, committee chairing, etc ...) when asked. But although it makes the advisor's job easier, it doesn't make them the Advisor.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

[UCEagle72]

BP

 

I took my turn "swabbing the deck" while onboard AFS-5 & 6 (USS Concord and San Diego), and later, landing on the USS Inchon (LPH-12) as an Army Aviator headed to Grenada. So if you want to use the term "swabbie" for me, sobeit.

 

However, the question was for a "generic term" that could be used when addressing a group. Not here to split hairs, but, if you want a "generic term" then Advisors is still appropriate.

 

[qwazse]

"Advisor" is an incorrect generic term! Committee members and consultants are not advisors! If you used it, some MC's will feel left out.

 

We have two choices:

 

"Adult leaders" - okay, but could apply to folks outside BSA.

"Scouters" - fits people in about where I want 'em.

 

My point (and I think BP's) is that Venturing adult leaders do not want to be seen as distinct from Pack or Troop leaders. They may pack a little lighter, but that's about it.

 

P.S. - "Venturians" might get confused with the folks who need 20oz of coffee-laden fluid in one sitting!

[Herms]

Explorer, oh wait a minute that is "old school".

[emb021]

You can thank National for many of the naming problems. It doesn't help that we already have a Venture program. Hence using "Venture" in the Venturing program is incorrect (thus, no "Venture Crew" or "Venture Scout"). The BSA has specifically stated that the term "Venture Scout" is NOT to be used.

 

Venturing is the name of the program. I guess calling it the Venturer program didn't work. Since we were replacing Exploring, it was more or less natural. Hence why we have Venturing Crews. The boy scout program is the 'boy scout' program. A little different.

 

Youth are Venturers. Venture/Venturing Scouts was probably out for the same reason we stopped called Explorers "Explorer Scouts" back in 1949: it was thought the youth would NOT like to be called 'scouts'. (Exploring even re-iterated this a few times in the 60s and 70s to NOT call Explorers 'Explorer Scouts'). YOU may be proud of the term, but OTHERS are not.

 

I, for one, have no problem calling adults in Venturing 'scouters'. We ARE part of the Scouting program, so we are also scouters. 'advisors', as others have pointed out, should only be used for those who actually hold that position. Yes, will some committee members may advise certain venturers, they are not advisors.

 

[Eagle92]

Yep, prior to Venturing coming out in Aug. 1998, the BSA already had "Venture Crews" within the troops, as wells as Ships having crews within it. And if memory serves those older scouts in the venture crews were somtimes called "venture Scouts," kinda like Varsity Scouts, esp since they could earn the letter and pins that Varsity Scouts earn (Ok originally it was only the HA pins the older scouts could earn, just like varsity scouts could only earn the sports pins.) I know when it came up at PDL-1, a lot of folks commented that there would be confusion on this.

 

To further add to the confusion, I've heard national level folks call Venturers "Venture Scouts" and Venturing Crews 'Venture Crews." Grant you not those that are involved inthe Venturing program, but still national, 'gold loop wearing" folks.

[BadenP]

 

I think the Venturing program should have a new name and logo to avoid all this confusion. Eliminate the mountain and replace it with a large lightening bolt, and use Annies idea for the name "VENTURIONS". Replace the term Advisor with Sage, that would eliminate any similiarties between Venture scouts and Venturing, just an idea, lol.

[emb021]

"And if memory serves those older scouts in the venture crews were somtimes called "venture Scouts,""

 

If they were called that, it was incorrect (tho logical). National has always been clear (well, if you look for it), that youth in Venture Crews/patrols are "Boy Scouts", NOT "Venture Scouts".

 

"kinda like Varsity Scouts, esp since they could earn the letter and pins that Varsity Scouts earn (Ok originally it was only the HA pins the older scouts could earn, just like varsity scouts could only earn the sports pins.)"

 

Not quite.

 

When the in-troop Venture/Varsity program was rolled out in 1989 (the in-troop Varsity program should NOT be confused with the standalong Varsity Scout Teams), the older youth could be formed into high adventure Venture Crews or sports Varsity Teams. The crews would earn the HA pins, and the Teams earn the sports pins.

 

It was soon realized that the in-troop Varsity Teams were being confused with the stand alone Varsity Scout Teams, so the terms were dropped (about 4-5 years later), and the Venture Crews could do either HA or sports. Varsity Scout Teams also got the "Varsity" strip that was created for the Varsity Teams.

 

More recently (well, I think about 3-5 years ago), National quietly changed things so that ONLY Varsity Scout Teams can earn the pins. Not sure why. I know I asked National for confirmation and they did so in Scouting Mag. You'd think this was part of a plan to get rid of the Venture Patrols, but they still exist.

 

(btw, all this is documented at my site www.seniorscoutinghistory.org)

 

Obviously, National picked up the terms "Venture" and "Venturing" from other scouting programs. I find it funny that recently England renamed their Venture program the Explorer program...

[Eagle92]

Emb,

Great stuff, and yes the BSA took the name and logo from the UK.

 

As for national doing away with venture patrol's earning the letter and pins, from my personal expereince, most units didn't even know about them. I know when I created a HA program for summer camp utilizing the program, my job was to create the "ultimate advanture" that units could do to meet the requirements. No one i talked to knew anything about the letter and pins.

 

EDITED: Forgot to add, a lot of units in my neck of the woods still used the Leadership Corps concept as late as 1996. My unit changed the name of the Leadership Corps to Venture Crew around '94 when we ran out of patches, but they still worked as if they were the LC.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)