Venture Uniform

[LovetoCamp]

nldscout, hold your breath and jump and down and then stomp your feet. The crew said no OA flaps so there's no OA flaps. Your bunch can do as they wish, our by-laws are our by-laws. If they included something over-the-top I would've stepped in, my job is to let them lead themselves as long as their leading themselves. The by-laws wouldn't be worth much too them if we didn't follow them. I thought it was a pretty stand-up act actually. They were rather adult and mature writing the by-laws. The OA boys have chosen sailing over conclaves every single time when given the choice, wonder why that is?

 

Cub Scouts is a part of BSA, as is Sea Scouts, Venturing, and Varsity. OA is a Boy Scout troop member activity. Why are your undies in a bunch about this? Let the female Venturers and Sea Scouts become members and let the Crews, Ships, and Varsity Teams hold elections and it would be a different story.

[LovetoCamp]

"So back to my question, suppose someone joins that is active in the OA and wears his flap, are you going to chastise them?"

 

To join, they would have to agree to live by the by-laws, which would include uniforming. If they had to wear their flap, there are other Crews besides ours in the area they could join.

[nldscout]

But according to BSA rules your Bylaws are incorrect. Someday its going to happen, someone will wear one. It inevitable that someone will do it. Why would you try and regulate something as minor as wearing something that a scout has earned. Whats next? Suppose one of them wants to wear his Eagle Badge, his year pins, or his National Jamboree Patch or whatever? What then?

[LovetoCamp]

What's next? Who knows? Everyday is different. I can understand you concern regarding our crew and my own lack of interest in OA. We're a Sea Scout Ship who sometimes wears the forest green shirts. We are not a troop. We can't hold OA elections, our female members can not be selected for OA. If our members can not join OA and they can not hold elections, OA hasn't even been mentioned in the two years I've been back.

 

We don't even look at the OA dates when we do our calendar.

 

The rest of your questions are getting goofy. Are you involved in Venturing? Or are you pretending to be an authority on the Venturing uniform?

[nldscout]

For your information, Yes I am. I have a daughter in a local crew, help out with hers and an all female crew in the area, Serve as district Venturing Rep and more. The problem I see is you as the advisor should never have allowed a rule in bylaws that was in contravetion to BSA rules.

 

On this note I will end my part in this disussion, thanks

[OldGreyEagle]

Well Pounder ol' buddy looks like its just and me, and I say we are right. If your crew says no OA patches, then its none and thats the way it is

[dsteele]

Gentlemen:

 

I'm not letting you off the hook that easily, although I have to say the issue doesn't mean much to me one way or the other.

 

Can the logic of the Crew members who agreed to not wear their lodge flaps because the Crew can not hold elections be extended?

 

Do you disallow the wearing of the Girl Scout Gold Award because the guys in the crew can't earn it?

 

Do you disallow the wearing of the Eagle Scout Award by the guys because the gals can't earn it?

 

Unc.

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually the girls in the Crew wear their gold award on their greem uniform based on the premise the boys can and the girls can't ever earn Eagle.

 

Its a separate program and why some members can earn things that other members cant just boggles my mind but as I keep getting told, Venturing is new and its still evolving. OA flaps on uniforms and boys earning Eagle as a Venturer hopefully will go the way of the Dodo bird and pasenger pigeon

[LovetoCamp]

Uncle,

 

We've went to square knots on our Sea Scout uniforms. Blue and white backgrounds. The patches don't go on the Sea Scout uniforms.

 

They've got one more session and they'll have completed the Small Boat Handler Bar and that pins on nicely, similar to the Ranger bar in placement.

 

I'm presenting my first Apprentice rank next month, with two getting very close. The Sea Scout Ranks: Apprentice, Ordinary, Able, are what go on the pocket. When a youth earns Quartermaster they then wear the same uniform as the adult leaders, with the Quartermaster being both his rank and office. Way cool.

 

Would you agree that when we put a 21 year old out into society who has earned Eagle, Ranger, Silver, and Quartermaster, that young person will be just a great asset to our country? By next spring we should have our first two Sea Eagles. Has anyone ever heard of a Eagle Bridge of Honor done in pure Sea Scout atmosphere?

 

OGE, I consider your advice like it was given to me from the burning bush itself!!!

 

P

[dsteele]

OGE --

 

I would certainly agree that the girls should wear their Gold Award on the green shirt.

 

In a phrase, "it is only right."

 

Pounder --

 

I can certainly agree that anyone who earns Eagle, Silver, Apprentice, Quartermaster, and, in the case of females, the Gold Award are certainly citizens that I will take great pride in.

 

It's about values, gentlemen. In the interim, I fail to see how wearing a lodge flap is harmful.

 

Unc.

[LovetoCamp]

Uncle,

 

I'll bring it up at our next Quarterdeck Meeting.

 

P

[Proud Eagle]

Both Boy Scout Troops and Varsity Scout Teams may hold OA unit elections. Also, both unit types have OA Unit Representatives as a position of responsibility. This is because both of those unit types are part of the larger Boy Scout program, as is OA itself.

 

Also, OA events are considered council events. I would strongly suggest at least taking a look at potential conflicts. Don't let it dictate your choices for a crew or ship, but if you have two otherwise equally good sets of dates to choose between, it would be nice to schedule your outing so that OA members could attend both your event and the OA event.

 

Any how, I really don't care if Venturers support every aspect of OA, or even the Boy Scout program, or the Cub Scout program. What I do care about, is that they respect the accomplishments, awards, and honors of others. If they do not, then there is no reason those involved in the Boy Scout program should be expected to respect the things they accomplish in the Venturing program.

 

I think in the end these sorts of things will work themselves out as Venturing defines itself and finds its place. At the moment though, it fits in a rather awkward location, trying to be too many things at once.

 

Ultimately, I think it can be summed up in one question. Is Venturing Scouting? or put another way- Are Venturers Scouts?

 

Once the Venturing community, and the larger Scouting community, know and understand the answers to those questions, many of these problems will go away.

[Eaglepacker]

First, let me say I love The OA, Venturing, and Scouting, these are fantastic programs that benefit youth. Second, I believe all these should work together and enhance each other. I am in a very small crew (only 6 youth and 5 advisors)of our 11 members, 8 are in the Order of the Arrow 3 are vigil and 1 youth(a former lodge chief), plus our COR(former lodge advisor), has received the founders award. of the 8 people in the order 6 have served on our LEC. We do wear the flaps. I believe venturers are scouts, and are slowly being accepted into the community.

 

Back on topic, the BSA uniforming guidelines state a lodge flap is allowed to be worn on a venturing uniform, plain and simple. But is it really necessary to establish this rule? A person can decide to wear a patch or not it is that easy.

 

A scout who is in the OA joined a crew with the same rule as Trail Pounder's. He asked me if he could still wear his flap, I asked him: "Is an arrowman defined by what is on his pocket or by what is beneath it?"

 

Eaglepacker

 

"Macaroni and cheese...is a thing of the sprit"

 

[Kevinpenguin]

Hello,

First time poster here... Read this topic and thought, wow, this is out of control.

 

I am a past lodge chief and section chief and council venturing president. I am a 22 year old adult member now who has been in the crew who didn't allow the use of the OA flap...

 

Simple solution - for OA members that want to promote the Venturing program while doing OA stuff, make it a crew rule that OA members are to wear the flap during OA activities.... We got 10 new members do to our ties with OA.

 

If it is a membership device for some, that's great. As a past chief, I was proud to constantly promote the lodge by wearing all of the OA garb constantly for promotion with the Venturing Uniform when Venturing was a relatively new program. It was great because as a visible youth member, people asked about the uniform and program just as much as the OA program.

 

The solution - forest green Velcro that you can use to either Velcro on a name badge - or a lodge flap!

 

Just some thoughts on a tough topic. Also, when the OA does work weekends - the Venturers come... I mean any - female, male, non-boy scout Venturers. We plan an activity while we OA members are doing member ceremonies for the Non-OA folk. THe benefit, the camp gets more service, the Venturer girls naturally recruit the scouting boys, the OA gets help with their activities!

 

WIN-WIN. Rules are rules, but be creative, the benefit can be great!

[FScouter]

Does a crew that codifies a practice banning OA flaps have some animosity towards OA? What I see is a group that is unsure of its identity and looks at OA as a rival.