dana_renner Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 Venturing as a program is only about 6 years old. New as it is, it drinks out of a deep well of Tradition the 5 most traditional clusters of the Pre 1998 Exploring BSA program are at its heart. When I mention traditional terms concerning Venturing and refer to the Pre 98 Exploring program I do so in a way to reflect on a program that worked then and is working now, Not just to be deja-vu but to show what worked once can work again. If we will read the Venturing literature we will see that the heart of Exploring did not leave Venturing. Now I do realize that this is 2004 and these are today's youth we are working with, but a lot of youth I talk to are interested in the traditional side of Venturing and some do remember some of Exploring especially if they are older and got involved in a crew prior to 1998 when it may have been a post. I went orienteering with some youth from a Venturing crew and guess what they used the same compass and map that the Boy Scouts did. Point being is that not everything changed. Now I am not saying that we should keep our heads in the past, but if isn't broke don't fix it. Youth can have fun and learn from the old as well as the new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Strange as it may sound I have yet to meet a Venturer in our District who knows anything about Exploring. Most of them don't know or care that Paul McCartney played in a band before Wings. A lot of the stuff that we do in all of our programs is stuff that has been around for a long time. The youth members don't give a tinkers where it came from they just want it to be challenging and fun. While I see no harm at looking back over old stuff and every now and then giving them an airing (A couple of years back we held a Camporee doing the Scout Skills of the 1930's.) While I can't speak for all the youth in the program. But the one I have at home hates when I start on about "The Good Olde Days". His answer to this is "Please Dad Give it a rest." Eamonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted April 5, 2004 Author Share Posted April 5, 2004 Well I did not say you have to talk about it all the time, or even mention it all. Venturing needs to come out with a program guide. You know a resource for an Advisor or Crew President to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted April 5, 2004 Author Share Posted April 5, 2004 Oh by the way we do not have to tell Venturers the activities that we do are old, new or whatever, I believe fun is the idea, my rantings are of someone who sees that some of each can work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Define "traditional" Exploring? Any scout young enough to be a venturer today would have know exoloring either by Law enforcement, emergency services or perhaps career exploring, is one of them the traditional one you speak of? As far as a program guide, the Venturing Leaders Handbook is largely devoted to that, isn't it? Aong with Venturing Roundtables and Venturing information in Scouting magazine not to mention the specific Venturing books. Are there realy not enough to able to lead a quality program??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Eagle Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 A while back there was talk of Venturers at the National Jamboree. The conclusion was that Jambo is a part of the Boy Scout program. Now back in 1997, I was at Jambo as a visitor. I distinctly remember there being uniformed Law Enforcement Explorers on site as part of the staff. I also recall at least one article from Boys Life that talked about the Law Enforcement Explorers at Jambo. Now that would seem to be a precedent for including others outside of the Boy Scout program at the Jamboree. Another point, it seems to me (and I could be wrong because I wasn't around back then), that way back when, Exploring was more or less the natural next step after Boy Scouts, in more or less the same way that Boy Scouts is the natural next step after Cub Scouts. I may perhaps be wrong, but it seems that this was the case for at least some period of time. It also seems this probably came to an end as Exploring shifted its focus from Scouting to a focus on specific things like various careers. Now Venturing is I think regaining some sense of being this natural 3rd step, but it certainly was not seen that way when it started in 1998, and it still has a very long way to go before anyone fully accepts it as the such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Boy Scouting was a natural step from Cub Scouts because your Cub Scouting tenure ended. That was and is not the case with Exploring or Venturing. They are and were alternate or additional program choices. Venturing does not become a "natural" progression until the Boy Scout reaches 18 and his youth membership ends just as it did in Cub Scouts before he joined the troop. Yes, there are Venturers on staff at the next Jambo (just as there were at the last one), but they are not eligible as participants in 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yak_Herder Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 "Traditional Venturing"? Interesting. I don't believe this discussion can be properly addressed without an understanding of Venturing's genealogy. The distinctions between "Explorer Scouts", "Explorers" and "Exploring" must be understood. Venturing is much more similar to Explorer Scouting and Explorers than the Spurgeon inspired Exploring. I've written a summary of the evolution of Scouting's "Senior Scouting" programs that I will e-mail to anyone that is interested. It's a bit lengthy for posting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureScoutNY Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 As a Venturer, I do believe that it is important to know where we came from and the History of programs past. Do all of my fellow Venturers believe this? Maybe some, and not others. When it comes to "if it aint broke don't fix it". Obviosuly BSA wanted to fix something when they created Venturing. They wanted a NEW program. Yes is does seem similar to the Explorer Scouts, and Explorers of the past, but it is not the same thing. We are dealing with a NEW youth and a NEW program. Although, I am a History Buff, and think it is crucial we know where we came from to know where we will be going; but than again, as much as I want to tell the History, I may find my Scouts my fellow Venturers asleep. Some people don't know and don't care where and what the program evolved from. They care about where they are now, and what they are doing today. When it comes to a program guide I lean with Bob, the Venturing Leaders Handbook does the job. Venturing a next step for Boy Socuts? Maybe, maybe not. I was also not around when Explorer Scouts was around, but from what I have heard from former Explorer Scouts, is that, that is where they went after they attained their Eagle rank. When a Boy Scout turns 18 he is gladly welcome to become a Venturer. Is it the next step? Depends on the Scout. PS.. I prefer Paul McCartney and Wings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yak_Herder Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Two significant factors came together in the creation of Venturing. First, a lawsuit in Chicago over community funded Exploring. The BSA was going to lose. Second, good men at National like Bill Evans saw the way Exploring had drifted away from the original, more effective program and wanted to re-introduce much of what was good about it. Rather than the usual 2-year development cycle and 5-year testing, they had to move quickly. They seem to have simply done a search and replace, pasting in "Venturing" everywhere the literature said "Exploring". Much of Bill's influence can be seen in the throwbacks to earlier programs, e.g the Ranger Award. Anyway, the upshot is we got a badly needed new program. Venturing has only now aged to the point it normally would have before being introduced to everyone.(This message has been edited by Yak_Herder) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 Traditional Exploring is the Program prior to 1998 by BSA definition Venturing is now considered a part of the traditional scout program defined by BSA 1998-present time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 It is not so much of if the youth that are in crew know anything about the History of Venturing, Exploring, Explorer Scouts or what have you. But the real thing is that they have fun. What I am getting at is this. That if you know where and what it is about, then you have a general knowledge of what it is that you are involved in. Get general knowledge I am not saying that a Venturer has to have enough knowledge to write a Doctorate for University of Scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 From around the early 70s to 1998 the majotiy of exporing was Career Exploring, Law enforcent Exploring and Sea Scouts and co-ed. Which was traditional? Prior to the early 70s Exploring was was high adventure and Sea Scouts and only for boys. Is that traditional Exploring? Before that it was Sea Scouts, Air Scouts and High Adventure but only for boys. Was that traditional? What element of traditional scouting do you think today's scouts would need in order to have more fun or gain more skills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentureScoutNY Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 dana_renner: Can you please just subit your messgae once. Just click once, you do not need to double click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 OOPS bad typing, here is my do over... From around the early 70s to 1998 the majority of Exploring was Career Exploring, Law Enforcement Exploring and Sea Scouts and it was co-ed. Which was traditional? Prior to the early 70s Exploring was high adventure and Sea Scouts and only for boys. Is that traditional Exploring? Before that it was Sea Scouts, Air Scouts and High Adventure but only for boys. Was that traditional? What element of traditional scouting do you think today's scouts would need in order to have more fun or gain more skills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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