Questions concerning Venturers in OA

[dana_renner]

First of all I am not in the OA, and my knowledge of it is limited

But what I do know. Is according to history that at one time Explorers were nominated into OA, I do not know if they were all the Outdoor/ High Adventure type and even after females were allowed in Exploring. They were only the Male Explorers with the right amount of Camping time and that was even after their advancement program was taken away. (This according to BSA History) were still nominated and elected to OA. There were post elections , however in the early 1990's this was done away with and Exploring was no longer allowed to have OA elections at the post level and OA said that Explorers were not outdoorsy enough. I find that funny since that 85% percent of all Exploring was Outdoor/High Adventure and some still connected to troops in some way or another. Since the question is arised that OA allowing Venturers to come into it I have a few mmore questions and this in the spirit of fairness? Will female Venturers and female Venturing adult leaders be nominated in the OA irregardless the cluster or specialty that their crew is in, as long as they have the Outdoor Bronze see a Venturer of any cluster can have the Outdoor Bronze, the Sea Scout Bronze, Arts and Hobbies Bronze, Religious Life Bronze or any of these, and also have the Ranger. Yes male and female Venturers with or without previous scout experience in a crew or a ship can have this and the experience more than many first class scouts.These same Venturers may even be teaching first class Boy Scouts about camping and helping them get their 15 camp outs in the first place and that Venturer doing this might be a young woman in the program. Please remember gentlemen that Venturing is the young adult division of the BSA. Thanks Dana

[Proud Eagle]

To the best of my knowledge, Posts stopped having elections when they went co-ed. This was done with the purpose of preventing female youth from being elected as candidates.

 

I may have my facts wrong, but that is what I understand to be the case.

 

 

[Bob White]

I believe your premise is incorrect. I do not believe that exploreres were eligible for OA. Oa requires you be a first class scout and that requires you to be a Boy Scout or varsity Scout. Yes many Explorers were Troop members just as many Venturers are, but many does not mean all.

 

These youth with combined membership were eligible only through their troop or team affiliation not through the post.

 

At this point in time OA continues to be only for troop and team members. Any change should come from within the governing body of the OA.

 

That training you speak of could come as easily from a local camping supply store employyee as from a Venturer. The employee has no more claim to OA membership than the Venturer. This was not an issue with Exploring. Why is it suddenly an issue now.

 

Dana, you have some unique questions about Venturing, many of which seem to be covered in the Venturing handbooks and Venturing training, or avilable through BSA resources. What exactly is your connection and experience with the program?

[dana_renner]

My involvment with Venturing comes as such I currently am a Unit Commissioner with a Venturing Crew, I was a Venturing Advisor and Civil Air Patrol project officer for a Crew that was in CAP squadron and I was a previous Assistant Scoutmaster in a troop ASM-Venture not a crew but with a patrol in a Troop. I have went through the training and went through the University of Scouting and Venturing and Exploring and Sea Scouts are my primary interest. I am very concerned with Venturers going into OA because I believe that BSA is a basically based on equality and I feel that Venturers no matter of what the cluster or specialty should have the same opportunity as Varsity and Boy Scouts have to be a part of a great historical and contemporary honor camping fellowship based on great traditions of the Native peoples of our continent. I however am not an OA member I am sorry to say, I wish I was because there is so much interesting things about this. However I wish to see Venturers adults and youth be admitted to this and not to bend the rules but let them go through the camping requirements, and I believe that Female Venturers can be a asset to any lodge that they received their ordeal through. I do have an OA Handbook that I purchased a while back that I bought from store that deals with antiques and such it is from 1975 and as of that time Explorers went through Post elections and had to have 50% of the Vote and this was 4 years after the inclusion of young women into Exploring and also may I add of women into certain leadership roles in BSA as Volunteer Adult leaders and certain professional positions. Also around this time Exploring had a National President that was female. No I am not screaming women's rights but I am saying if people are in Venturing then they should be eligible for OA if they meet the Eligibility requirements for nomination. I will say in reference to the Explorer

question it was male Explorers who had this. They could be elected from 14-20 according to this manual the First Class Requirement was for Boy Scouts and not for Explorers but they had to be registered in a ship or post 6 months prior to the election.Camping requirement was the same for Scouts or Explorers. Maybe the reason why the big fuss is now as Venturing is going more along a trail it seems to be blazing for itself is that it is discovering more of what it was under the Outdoor/High Adventure Exploring and this time BSA may have to make room for Young women to be involved with OA. There are other proposals for Honor Societies especially in Venturing, COD the Order of the Trident(Sea Scouts) and this was proposed in 1995 when there were still Sea Explorers and Member of the Year I just wrote a plan for Venturing in our council to have a Venturing Honor Society be along the lines of APO Alpha Phi Omega. Venturers of all clusters and specialties should be give the same opportunities to participate in an Honor Society especially if they meet the criteria, Bob thanks for your inquiry hope I did not bore you I love scouting Venturing in particular I ask questions to learn and to learn off of experienced scouters. again thanks Dana

[dana_renner]

My involvment with Venturing comes as such I currently am a Unit Commissioner with a Venturing Crew, I was a Venturing Advisor and Civil Air Patrol project officer for a Crew that was in CAP squadron and I was a previous Assistant Scoutmaster in a troop ASM-Venture not a crew but with a patrol in a Troop. I have went through the training and went through the University of Scouting and Venturing and Exploring and Sea Scouts are my primary interest. I am very concerned with Venturers going into OA because I believe that BSA is a basically based on equality and I feel that Venturers no matter of what the cluster or specialty should have the same opportunity as Varsity and Boy Scouts have to be a part of a great historical and contemporary honor camping fellowship based on great traditions of the Native peoples of our continent. I however am not an OA member I am sorry to say, I wish I was because there is so much interesting things about this. However I wish to see Venturers adults and youth be admitted to this and not to bend the rules but let them go through the camping requirements, and I believe that Female Venturers can be a asset to any lodge that they received their ordeal through. I do have an OA Handbook that I purchased a while back that I bought from store that deals with antiques and such it is from 1975 and as of that time Explorers went through Post elections and had to have 50% of the Vote and this was 4 years after the inclusion of young women into Exploring and also may I add of women into certain leadership roles in BSA as Volunteer Adult leaders and certain professional positions. Also around this time Exploring had a National President that was female. No I am not screaming women's rights but I am saying if people are in Venturing then they should be eligible for OA if they meet the Eligibility requirements for nomination. I will say in reference to the Explorer

question it was male Explorers who had this. They could be elected from 14-20 according to this manual the First Class Requirement was for Boy Scouts and not for Explorers but they had to be registered in a ship or post 6 months prior to the election.Camping requirement was the same for Scouts or Explorers. Maybe the reason why the big fuss is now as Venturing is going more along a trail it seems to be blazing for itself is that it is discovering more of what it was under the Outdoor/High Adventure Exploring and this time BSA may have to make room for Young women to be involved with OA. There are other proposals for Honor Societies especially in Venturing, COD the Order of the Trident(Sea Scouts) and this was proposed in 1995 when there were still Sea Explorers and Member of the Year I just wrote a plan for Venturing in our council to have a Venturing Honor Society be along the lines of APO Alpha Phi Omega. Venturers of all clusters and specialties should be give the same opportunities to participate in an Honor Society especially if they meet the criteria, Bob thanks for your inquiry hope I did not bore you I love scouting Venturing in particular I ask questions to learn and to learn off of experienced scouters. again thanks Dana

[Bob White]

Here is where you confuse me Dana

 

"I believe that BSA is a basically based on equality"

 

What would make you think that? Cub Scouts Boys Scouts, and for decades Exploring, was just for boys. Equal? There is a different program, different uniform and different advancement for each group. Equal? For years and years women could not be scout leaders. Equal? A charter organization can restrict its membership to only certain families. Equal? National excludes from membership atheists and avowed homosexuals. Equal?

 

What in the past history of scouting EVER suggested that scouting was based on equality? It is based only on the values of the Oath and Law.

 

"However I wish to see Venturers adults and youth be admitted to this and not to bend the rules but let them go through the camping requirements"

There may be good reason to open membership to Venteurers but is this one of them? There is nothing stopping Venturers from camping that I am aware of. How would OA membership affect the amount of camping that a crew can do? It wouldn't. That is very unusual logic Dana.

 

The fact that Exploring had a female president has no relationship to the membership rules of the OA. No one is saying that females cannot be an asset to a lodge (although I am boggled as to why you feel they can only be an asset to the lodge they are elected in?). There are females in the OA today. This is not about being female. It is that the OA is a Boy Scout program, not a Cub Scout or Venturing program. That's it pure and simple.

 

I think it would be great for the Venturing program to have its own organization. But it took years for the OA to start. Patience Dana.

 

But, think about the attitude that is being presented here. You want the rules changed because you want to get in. Wouldn't you rather the rules changed because the The OA wanted to let others in? Wouldn't that be better?

 

Thank you for responding. Now if you could do everyone one last favor? PLEASE just hit the ENTER key ONCE.

 

 

[dana_renner]

Bob I will endeavor at this time to end this confusion you have with my observations and remarks. You are right about the position that for years the BSA did not practice equality, it now seems to do so some granted I will give you that. And for years Exploring did not practice it either until the early 1970's. You however are wrong about a few things I first of all am not in the OA although I would like to be I am not in favor of the OA changing the rules just for me. In the council that I am in there are some Venturing crew advisors that are also scoutmasters that are in the Order of the Arrow that would like to see OA change it's policy on female Venturing Youth. I do realize that for many years BSA kept women out of most scouting programs other than Cub Scouts where at first they were Den Mothers and that changed to Den Leaders. And when I mentioned yesterday 3-14-04 that Exploring had a female president in the 1970's I was referring to this as a Victory somewhat for women in a mostly male organization. I do share a concern with you wanting to see Venturers and youth admitted to OA also I do not believe that the camping requirements where it would be kept track of for OA purposes for that matter any crew can go camping as you say and for any reason they want to but the people who do it have their own reasons for going and if they want to be considered for OA wouldn't they be more likely to want to camp with a crew or a ship. I do not mean that OA membership could or would keep a crew from camping or make them do any more camping. If female Venturers were elected to the OA saying that OA would open to Venturing they like any female adult, or youth could be an asset. Where the problem is with all this that for anyone to think that this will happen may be mistaken, first of all OA would have do a lot of change, that may happen, but I do not believe it will. I do believe that Venturing will have to look in an Honor Society of it's own. This will take OA off the hook

as far as Equality is concerned in BSA,OA Venturing and the rest of the BSA program is concerned it can be done but only within the Scout Oath and Law, Venturing Code and Oath, and the other oaths and promises of Scouting. As far as me being in the OA, That would be up to the District Commissioners in my District and that is between me and them.Sorry about my poor computing skills only been at this a short time first computer and all that. Again Thanks Bob.

 

[LovetoCamp]

dana, after you submit your message, let the computer take you back. I think your immediately hitting that link "click here if your computer does not automatically transfer you". Give it some more time to take you back and your double postings will hopefully stop.(This message has been edited by Trail Pounder)

[Bob White]

Dana,

Camping is not what gets you into the OA. Lots of Boy Scouts who meet the requirements never get to be OA members. It is your character that makes you OA not the nights camping. The nights camping represent your outdoor skills. Let's not have people camping just to get into the OA. Let them be camping because they enjoy the outdoors and grow from that experience. Then let that personal growth earn them candidacy into the OA. You seem to be approaching this inside out.

 

OA isn't something you get to do, it is something that others choose for you to do.

 

 

[VentureScoutNY]

Hm..just a quick question...

 

I am a Venturer, 19 and also apart of the OA. Can I wear my OA sash with my Venturing Uniform? I have been wearing it, and have seen others wear it,no ones ever told me I could or couldn't come to think of it. I am pretty sure I can but from what I have been reading in these posts I'm a little confused...Maybe its just too late at night and too much school work...

 

 

[DDHII]

VentureScout:

 

Yes. Only if you are currently a registered paid member of your lodge in good standing.

[OldGreyEagle]

It is my understanding that the OA sash may only be worn at OA activities. So, are you at OA activities when you wear the sash?

[VentureScoutNY]

Yes, OA activities but also Crew/Troop ceremonies/Eagle COH's.

[DDHII]

You can only wear the sash at OA functions (i.e. chapter, lodge, conclave, NOAC, etc)

 

OA sash is not appropriate for any other function, unless it is an approved OA activity. Troop/Crew activities, Eagle Courts of Honor do not count.

[VentureScoutNY]

"OA sash is not appropriate for any other function, unless it is an approved OA activity. Troop/Crew activities, Eagle Courts of Honor do not count."

 

Are you sure? I have seen it worn by Venturers at this events. I have also see pictures of old Exploreres with their OA sashes on at events other than OA. If I am in my Venturing Uniform at a Crew/Troop or Eagle COH I should be able to wear the OA sash. I am a member of the BSA as a Venturer, and the OA is linked to the BSA.

 

Now im confused..any official stance on this?