Order of the Arrow Membership for Venturing

[OldGreyEagle]

Pounder, are you serious? April FOol isnt for a few more weeks, did you get a head start on it?

 

PS I hope you are right!

[WAKWIB]

Since that "press release" is complete fiction....campaign hat will not be served today. I am suprised that so many appear to be enthusiastic in having girls dressing up and playing Indian.

Constructive note: I have participated in a couple of threads on this forum that dealt with new honor societies for Venture Scouts being formed. One was in Guam and another in Australia. If I were to suggest something, I think that would be it. It would actually work out better in the long-run, I think, if Venture Scouts could create their own thing, tailored to their age, requirements and gender composition. Something they could own, instead of redesigning Order of the Arrow to accomodate them.

[Tamegonit Arrowman]

Now that you old men have had your say, I'll state my point of veiw, the point of veiw of a youth involved in the program, and the point of veiw which you have been trying in vain to figure out.

 

The idea of having girls in the Order simply appalls me.

 

The program would have to be completely ripped apart and re-constructed to service their needs, and quite needlessly, seeing as how quite nearly ALL of the girls I have ever come in contact with could care less about the program, much less being in it.

 

The entire program is designed for guys, and it should remain that way.

 

DUH!

 

 

 

 

 

[LovetoCamp]

The "DUH" part fit.

[WAKWIB]

Yep TP, Fits you like a glove!!

[LovetoCamp]

Yes sometimes it fits me like a glove. But, no not here. If you approve of your son writing like this, and you're his teacher, it's on you and I'd be getting him back into school before it's too late.

 

If that is an example of OA leadership today, I'm going to take a big pass on supporting that program going forward, simply no longer inteested. KOTPA!!!

 

 

 

[scoutldr]

EagleWB: The quote was from the link that Bob posted right above me. From the OA national web site.

 

SL

[WAKWIB]

For my part, my last post violated the 6th point of the Scout Law. I apologize.

As for TA, (just an educated guess here) I think he clearly expressed the setiments of many 13-15 year old newbies in the Order of the Arrow.

I don't think he was stiving for eloquence...he was making a point without mincing words or hiding his true feelings.

I wouldn't judge the entire organization based on his comments alone, as he is only been a part of it for a short time. I happen to agree with his overall point, but I'm not a part of that particular honor society, and as an adult, wouldn't have a say in much anyway. Perhaps I should ask some of the chapter and lodge leaders in our area how they feel about girls joining their organization. Maybe they would set myself and TA straight.

[matuawarrior]

Aahhhh, this discussion has resurfaced.

 

One of the reasons why we created our own HCS is because the Order of the Arrow is a Boy Scout Program. There are certain requirements that were mentioned in early posts that would not allow a Venturer to be a candidate unless they were a multiple in a Scout Troop.

 

Even if, and when, the OA decides to open up membership to Venturers as it did with Explorers up to the mid 90's, it still leaves out those venturers who are different because of their gender. I don't think that would sit well with any co-ed crew, where there is not one set standard.

 

I feel for our District's OA chapter. It's been defunct for 2 years. Now, their trying to revive it. With our "Tribal Clan" now organized for the Venturers here. I often wonder where most of the male senior scouts, who are also multiples in Venturing Crews, would place thier focus. Being in two different units is hard enough. What more with two HCS's?

 

 

 

Matua

 

 

[nldscout]

As a long time member of the OA, now an adult I would not like to see it opened up to females as youth members.

 

I do have a question, Why? Why must we contually have this discussion. Why does the Venturing devision not just form its own Honor camping society? If we open it to venturers, what about Cub Scouts?

 

Can someone explain why?

 

We are getting more and more like the ACLU every day. If we don't include everyone, then Gee maybe we hurt someones self esteem. So lets change the rules and include everyone, why bother with elections at all.

[LovetoCamp]

Twice last week I heard a different person whining about the lask of participation from both the youth and adult OA members at the last few events. Nobody's feelings are hurt, nobody's self esteem is crushed, I just think it would be beneficial to open your arms to the female scouts whose pocket strips say "Venturing BSA" or "Sea Scouts BSA". Your stance is not fighting the good fight.

 

[Proud Eagle]

It is nice to know Trail Pounder has recieved The Moral Compass from God so he has no doubt about what is good, and so he can proclaim what is good for all others to know.

 

I am not convinced that opening OA to Venturers is a wise idea.

 

I can see a way it might benefit those Venturers allowed in.

 

However, I can also see how harm could be done to the Boy Scouts in the OA, and to the Order itself. At best any agreement to allowing Venturers into the OA would be a compromise of current standards, mission, goals, and ideals of the Order.

 

Perhaps OA will one day evolve into the all inclusive, all program areas honor society for all of Scouting (including those scouts not even called Scouts). It is not at the moment such a society, nor is it intended to be. Further, I don't think it would function well as one in its current form.

 

So if what you want to do is to do a large rebuild of the OA, then I think Venturers could be accomodated. However, some of what is now good about the OA would be lost in any such transition. Some of the good of things always passes away with change. How much of the Order's current character and good nature are you willing to sacrifice to make it into something new? I certainly I am not ready to rush into such a thing. Until a careful study can be done of what is in the best intersts of the Order, the Boy Scout program, and the Venturing program, I am opposed to any changes in the current method of electing candidates.

 

Thus far all the reasons presented for changing the membership standards of the Order seem to fall far short of being cause for change. If anything, it illustrates that the arguments of both sides are based primarily on personal oppinion and emotion; not the logic, facts, and ideals that such decisions should be based on. Until one side or the other can present a compelling case, I am in favor of continuing with the Order's current mission.

[LovetoCamp]

It certainly makes like easier when God locks that compass on true north and makes it pretty darn clear what's right and what's not right.

 

I've lost all interest in your OA. The flaps won't be worn on our crew uniform and going forward I will not consider the OA calendar when scheduling Crew/Ship activities. Let's see, Sailing or Shooting Sports or some OA work detail, what will they choose, hmmmmmmm.

 

Ok, I'm done now. Not another peep on this subject from me.

[NWScouter]

Proud Eagle,

I hope you are proud of your comment. To cast scorn upon an others arguments is one of the lowest form of debate. I have not seen any mention of any specific harm that would come if Venturers or females would be part of the Order other vaguely sexist fears.

 

Trail Pounder,

Dont go away mad at the OA. Many members want Venturers (both male female) to be eligible to be elected to the Order. Dont let the comments of those on this forum color too much your option of the OA