LovetoCamp Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Going south into Elburn on Rt 47, SPEED TRAP, SPEED TRAP, SPEED TRAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Dana a couple of questions. What does Venturing gain by combining it with either the long retired BSA rover program or the UK rover program? What could a Venturing Ccrew not do as a Venture Crew that it could do as a Rover Crew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Bob I believe that a Venturing Crew could do everything a Rovering Crew could do. The Rovering Scout program as a specialty could enhance Venturing's focus in scouting. Give roots to it's wings so to say. It could enhance Venturing's outreach to service clubs and High Adventure clubs. Venturers that are Rovers would be an outreach to both youth like other scouting youth. and to adults maybe other scouters. especially Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts in that 18-21 year old range. Also they could still remain registered as Rovers even after they completed their Venturing program on their 21st birthday. Just imagine Bob what A Boy Scout/Venturer/Rover Scout could be quite a resource especially in OA and also as A Venturer serving packs, troops teams other crews. Venturers who are specialize in the Rovering specialty could learn more about scouting, especially Venturers who never were in scouting before, male and female those in co-ed crews since Rovering is co-ed too. For further information please see WWW.Geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/roverscout.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 So again Dana, How specifically does it enhance the BSA Venture program, if by your own statement there is no difference. Why do you want to take BSA members and enroll them in a different program if it does nothing different? explain how they will learn more about scouting from a program that is not part of the BSA? The Link you gave is to a program thet NO LONGER EXISTS! Why are you looking for ways to reinvent a perfectly good wheel? (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Bob I am not trying to re-invent anything. There are many crews that have a problem with keeping youth in them. Also in Venturing there seems to be a loss of scouting. They are as you might say quite lax. Many of them do not seem to have a knowledge of the roots of scouting. Even some Boy Scouts that are Venturers seem to be bored with the whole thing. Now some of this is them being just teenagers. But some of this is a lack of excitement. But I believe this is always been a problem in scouting particularly with teenage boys. That might be a reason why Venturing is co-ed in some crews. The crews have to scramble to get a program and with crews being youth led if the youth are not inspired, very poor crew program. And then Unit Commissioners have to try to keep Advisors excited about the program too. That is why I look into some other forms that were once tried. From what I see Rover Scouts is a similar program with a deep well to draw from and I feel this would do go with an Outdoor Adventure Crew as a side specialty or maybe a main specialty this again would be up to the youth in any particular crew. Doesn't hurt to ask questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Dana, If the advisor can't get one unit to work, how are they going to make two work? IS there not already of program opportunities and activity choises available in Venturing? Several advancement and recognition opportuites? Guidleines, training anmd program supports? Sure there are! If your no good at baking a cake how is trying to make cookise and cake together going to make you any better? The solution to a Venturing Crew's problems isn't to have another program layered on to it, It needs better leadership. Nothing else will solve the problems you sited. Do the program well and the members will stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Bob: Doesn't leadership in any group have to be inspired? doesn't it have to have goals something to base itself on These crews have elections for new leaders every year and yes there is a plethora of information and training manuals produced by BSA. The problem is boredom. buisness meetings on business meetings Venturing is supposed to have some action in it am I right. Youth have to be Inspired. Also in co-ed crews boys have to accept the fact that girls have the right to be there too, according to Venturing literature, right. Rovering does exist worldwide even in the WOSM even some still in BSA as we see in Venturing Crew 1, Dan Beard Rover Crew. Maybe this would inspire the youth maybe not , worth a try I think so . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Dana, Think this through, if its the same people, how will the quality of the leadership change by giving them a different name? Venturers calling themselves ROVERS will have exactly the same program opportunities they have as Venturers. If they aren't choosing to make plans now to do stuff, giving them another name won't change anything. If you are a Venturing Advisor or Commissioner you are supposed to be teaching the scouts to do the VENTURING program, What doesn't the current program allow the Scouts to do that you need another program added on would do. You said it yourselfright answer before. NOTHING. Why not just teach them how to do the program you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Bob Isn't Rovering a more basic form of the same thing that we have in Venturing? In one of the posts mentioned here today we see that we had a Rovering Scout leader say that they used the Venturing structure to deliver the Rovering program as a specialty for that Venturing Crew, What I am referring here to is the Rovering specialty in as a specialty to Outdoor Crews in Venturing. However the problems are basic, Yes I agree teach and work with youth where they are at and maybe doing another specialty is not the answer for a particular crew. In some crews the problems are that the youth are not committed, school work, sports, band etc get in the way. This is understandable, I do not like it but it is a fact of life we cannot avoid. But I have even heard many youth talk about a second specialty for the crew to check into. This talk was from crew presidents. Again a thing on inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Dana define the "Rovering specialty". What is in the Rovering program that isn't already part of Venturing. Be specific. When I asked this before you said "nothing". So how is nothing going to make it work better or be more exciting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Bob Specifically Rovering as a specialty can work within the Venturing crew structure to deliver an outdoor and service program, I guess the same way that Venturing without Rovering could do. However deep in Rovering is the Basics that scouting was founded on just it is geared to appeal to older youth and young adults. The nuts and Bolts of scouting are there. A more BP style program and this would be beneficial to Venturers who do not have previous scouting experience and would be a renewal for those Venturers who are previous or who are currently in Venturing. It is international in scope it is a world movement which can benefit a crew. Maybe this does not make sense in some peoples eyes. The program I believe would benefit a Venturing Crew who would use it. And Instill more scout spirit. I am not saying Venturing does not have that, just many crews need it. The way Venturing is set up the crew could miss out on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 Smoke and mirrors Dana, your talking fluff. What specific "thing" does the crew need from Rovers that they cannot do in Venturing without Rovers? Venturing can deliver an outdoor and service program, it already has that as a core of the program. Venturing has the Nuts and Bolts of Scouting in it. Youth Lead, Outdoors, character, citizenship and fitness development. Venturing is for older youth too, and even if you layered in Rovering the participants would have to leave by their 22nd birthday. They would not be allowed to stay to 26. Scouting is international already they don't' need a dual program for that. If you can't instill spirit in Venturing using nearly 100 years of scouting heritage that exists already how will adding a UK program accomplish it? "I am not saying Venturing does not have that, just many crews need it." Dana, read what you wrote... If crews need it and Venturing has it then the problem is the leadership doesn't know how to do it, if they can't make Venturing work why should they be able to make Rovers work? "The way Venturing is set up the crew could miss out on it." You have yet to give a single concrete explanation to support this statement. How is Venturing set-up so that crews miss out on anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Bob What more can I say? Have you read anything concerning Rover Scouts, there are some right here in the USA, They are not just UK they are worldwide. Some are in BSA and some are in independent forms of scouting. What A Venturing crew can do with Rovering is get the nuts and bolts BP style of scouting within the crew program.Bob look into Rovering check out WWW.cedu.niu./scied/ db_crew/Dan_Beard_Rover_Crew html read into it for your self this is an active Venturing Crew . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 First Dana, your Link doesn't work. Second, If you can't give me in a half dozen posts a single specific feature that Rovers has that Venturing doesn't, then how will ever be able to explain it to youth who you say 'don't get' Venturing? Remember that the Rover group you site were Rovers first and then became a Venturing crew. So it would seem to me that they found more in Venturing then Rovers had. So why do you want to go in reverse? So far it makes no sense and you have not offered any specifics to support your position.(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana_renner Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 Bob here is that site again www.cedu.niu.edu/scied/db_crew/Dan_Beard_Rover_Crew html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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