LauraT7 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 in another thread, someone said theirs was NOT a camping troop - How can you 'deliver the program' if you don't camp AT ALL? If any of your boys want to go for Eagle, Eventually, they must get the camping badge and to do so, they MUST camp 20 nights - and only ONE week (6 nights) of summer camp counts. so much of scouting advancement is scoutcraft - knots, knife and axe, compass, swimming, etc - Why would the boys want to learn those things unless they get a chance to use them somewhere ( like camping?) I don't get it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akela Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 ditdo! How can you be a non-camping troop? Our troop camps every month except May and December, and then we have troop day out, and go to the BIG CITY and do things. Several months we have weekenders that are 2 nights out. These non-camping troops are cheating the boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I've also heard people refer to their troops as "non-camping" troops and I've also been baffled by this. They've told me that they only do one campout a year, the rest of the time they work on merit badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I will offer a different perspective if you will allow me. Camping is just spending the night outdoors in minimum shelter. Camping is sleeping. The scouting program does not have camping as a method of meeting the aims of scouting. The "Outdoor Program" is the method, and you can have an active outdoor program and do minimal camping. The "outdoor program" goal is often misquoted. The BSA does not say an active unit needs to camp once a month. It says you need to get outdoors once a month. Hiking, skiing, cycling, smimming, nature observations, climbing and rappeling, swimming, boating, pioneering, skating, rifle and shotgun, archery, cooking, firebuilding, survival skills,and many other scout skills can be done without camping. If camping in itself was that important, why would the advancement program only require three campouts to get all the way through the Life Rank? If camping was the focus why would a scout be able to complete the camping MB requireement simply by doing one two night campout out each year plus one week at summer camp to qualify? A troop can complete the outdoor activity requirement for the Quality Unit award by doing a week at summer camp and 5 hikes, or other outdoor activities. So it is not sleeping outside alot that makes for a good scouting program. It is having outdoor activities that are fun, active, adventuresome, and monthly. If they happen to sleep outdoors that's fine, but there is far more to the outdoor program than where you sleep (although I personally like to camp). Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraT7 Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 Bob - i suppose i COULD see that - assuming that they did ONE campout per year in addition to summer camp - but it sure wouldn't leave room for anyone missing that ONE campout.... and i can't imagine it being a very fun troop..... the thing is, I believe it was BTPS that said they weren't a 'camping troop' and that they did NO camping or outdoor activities, and only went to summer camp. Practicality says that not every boy in the troop makes it to camp either. so how can they possibly 'deliver the promise'? And if they DON't camp OR do outdoor activities - then how can they earn their ranks and badges (particularly 'Camping' which is Eagle required) and have even a chance at Eagle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I agree that summer camp only is not sufficient to meet the needs of the advancement program. I was just making the point that camping is but one activity in the outdoor program and that with minimal camping but other exciting monthly outdoor activities a unit can experience a complete qualit program. I know of troops that camp every month and only ever go to 4 different campgrounds. They do not do 84 outdoor activities in a youths tenure. They do 4 over and over and over again. Just because they camp alot I would not call this a good outdoor program. It is far less important to the goals of scouting where you sleep at night. What is important are the activities you do while awake. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 "It is far less important to the goals of dcouting where you sleep at night. What is important are the asctivities you do while awake." Sounds like a workable philosophy even outside the world of scouting, huh, what? there is a world outside of scouting? This warrants investigation, I'll be back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank10 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 BW, I agree that camping is not the end-all, but you can pack a hike, two camp fires, four meals (and two snacks), a service prodject, star gazing, bird waching, a few scoutmasters minutes and a "Scout's Own" service all into one campout and still have time for a good game of capture the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 >>A troop can complete the outdoor activity requirement for the Quality Unit award by doing a week at summer camp and 5 hikes, or other outdoor activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt01 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 The troop I am involved in only goes to summer camp. I have in the past year tried to get them to go camping more(4 to 6 weeks) but the boy run troop does not what to go camping. Then at a Committie Meeting last month the CC with the backing of the SM and SA said that the troop was not a Camping Troop. I asked them how the scouts are going to meet the requirements to advance. They said at summer camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I do not deny what you say wingnut and that is my point. That would have been a good day of scouting whether or not you chose to stay the night outdoors. I oopsed! It is 6 outdoor activities not 5 and I have that showing as the requirement for at least the last 4 years of Quality Unit requirements. BTPS Someone needs to review the Tenterfoot to first class reqwuirement with your leaders. You troop needs to do at least two separate overnight campouts each year along with the summercamp in order to fullfill the advancement requirements for the scouts. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Advancement details aside; if your Scouts aren't camping out on a pretty regular basis they're missing out on a big part of what it's all about... IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Buffalo2 I do not disagree that camping is a great activity and I enjoy doing it frequently. I am not saying you are not welcome to you opinion or that you opinion is wrong in any way. But bear with me if you will in order to make a point about scouting. When you say camping is a big part of what its all about can I ask that you describe what you mean by camping, and what it is you think it is all about. Again this is not a test or a trap or in any way meant to start an argument. It is a learning experience for both of us. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 BobWhite says: The "outdoor program" goal is often misquoted. The BSA does not say an active unit needs to camp once a month. It says you need to get outdoors once a month. Hiking, skiing, cycling, smimming, nature observations, climbing and rappeling, swimming, boating, pioneering, skating, rifle and shotgun, archery, cooking, firebuilding, survival skills,and many other scout skills can be done without camping. Those things CAN be done without camping. But remember that this thread was prompted by a troop that ONLY camps at summer camp, and self identifies as a "non camping troop." Given those facts, what do you think are the chances that this particular troop engages in those or other outdoor activities once a month? Or, I'm guessing, once every two months? I am sure some of them are done sometimes, but it sounds to me like they are probably not done with sufficient frequency to really satisfy the "outdoor method." Admittedly that is just a guess, but I usually guess right. As for advancement, as Bob points out, summer camp alone is not going to do it. Btps later confirms that in this troop, all camping advancement requirements are to be passed at summer camp. Now I have not studied all the advancement requirements in detail, but I know that for one or more of the first three ranks you have to sleep in a tent YOU HAVE PITCHED and you have to prepare, or help prepare, one or more meals, plus meal planning, cleanup, etc. Now, my son just attended his first week of summer camp. Similar to most of my summer camping experiences as a boy, his tent had been set up by staff, and all of his meals were taken in a dining hall (though unlike in my day, it was air-conditioned), in which his role (other than eating) was limited to serving as one of the "waiters" for his troop when it was his turn. Which is useful experience, but I don't think it got him any boxes checked off. The point is, he really did not have the opportunity to pass some of those camping requirements at summer camp, but he did not need to. He had already passed the Tenderfoot camping requirements on an earlier camping trip, and will presumably move on to the requirements for the next two ranks in the fall when they start camping again. And of course at the same time, is starting to build up his "days and nights" toward Camping merit badge. I have never heard of a troop where the boys, in general, did not like to camp. Individual boys, yes, but they usually went on to other things before long anyway. My son is growing to really like camping, though his first trip could have been a bit drier, but I think that could be said for most camping trips in this part of the country so far this year. I wonder if, in that "non camping troop," that attitude really comes from the boys, or if it is influenced by parents whining and complaining about having to drive XYZ miles every month, etc. And whining and complaining about having to help their kids prepare for camp -- because I suspect that in a troop that does not camp, the kids do not know how to prepare themselves. If they camped, they'd have the impetus to learn now, they'd be able to practice those skills, their parents would have less reason to complain, and they'd go camping more. Circular logic? I suppose, but I suspect there is some truth to it. If I am right that it is the parents influencing the boys' non-camping attitude, the way to break the circle is to schedule a camping trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 There could be extenuating circumstances as to why they do not like to camp. Perhaps they have not gotten adequate training in how to camp comfortably, perhaps the leaders do not know how to camp, maybe they have never gone anywhere interesting or planned any activities while they were out, perhaps they do not have adequate shelter of cooking gear? I would be interested in why the scouts do not care to camp. It is very likely do take a fixable problem. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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