extortion or common practice

[Bobwhite89]

The policy is just dead wrong. The local council does not have any costs associated with you attending a jamboree or NOAC on staff unless they do a bunch of local items (bags, hats, etc) for their participants and they include the staff in those tokens.

 

To extort an FOS gift to serve on National Events staff is just plain wrong and something that needs to be brought to the attention to the various National staff members that can address it, and those are easy to identify.

[Eagle732]

 

There are some great non-BSA high adventure activities available. Maybe your troop could find something that suits them and skip NOAC.

[SMT224]

Let's face it, the National events like the Jamboree and High Adventure Boy Scout Outings are for the rich Troops. If you can do it, go for it! If you've got the buck have a blast! But a significant number of the Scouts in our urban/suburban Troop can barely pay for summer camp, let alone monthly camping trips and registration. Something like Jamboree and High adventure are so far out of our league we can't even think about it! Big deal, so what! We have plenty of fun and adventure in state parks and on Forest Service trails. If you can do this kind of thing, great! But there are a bunch of Scouts Troops out there who can't even commence to think about doing this kind of thing. And you know what? We don't miss it one bit! We still create fun and amazing activities that fulfill all the BSA requirements, conduct projects that provide service to our community and Nation, breed great Eagles, and have a absolute blast at a fraction of the cost of all these Scouting events that National creates for the bored rich kids. Forget about this bs, don't pay it and create your own events and outings!!

 

[skeptic]

Am confused again. NOAC and Jamboree, are not troop events. Like any activity, if it is important to the scout, then he likely will find a way to fund it. But,the decision is that of each individual whether or not to participate in these types of events.

 

Now, a council charging extra fees of some sort in order to approve that participation is flat wrong. And they should be brought up short as soon as possible. How that might be done can be discussed.

[Eagle732]

That's easy.

If no one payed the fee then the charging for signatures would stop.

Apparently your council thinks they have enough adult volunteers willing to pay that they can get away with it. Maybe they do.

Just say no.

[Bando]

I'm in the Area 2 region as well, and I've heard rumblings of stuff like this.

 

This year, when FOS came through, every leader in our troop was required to either donate the specified amount or go in person to the SM and tell him we were opting out so they didn't have to refer our name to the "phone bank" and cost the council money to call us to solicit a donation. (I wonder where that call center is?)

 

I'm decidedly in the time-talent camp of scouting, not the treasure. I have to admit I laughed a bit when the FOS requirement was thrown down on us, and laughed a little less when I had to go own up to the fact that I didn't have $150-whatever to give.

 

I volunteer my time, I give my experience, and I do what I can within my means. I think that's true of all of us. Who is some suit at the council to tell any of us we don't do enough? And why should their autograph be held over our heads for a donation?

[DeanRx]

I once had a DE state to me, "I just don't understand why there seems to be so much animosity between the paid and volunteer scouters sometimes!"

 

Think I might print this thread out and mail it to him!

 

If my council ever wants $$ for a signature on ANYTHING, it will be the last FOS, last popcorn, last ANY funding they see from me other than unit level support.

 

Heck, I'd call the local news on something like this...

[BadenP]

Dean

 

This kind of stuff has been around a long time. The councils first and primary goal is to make MONEY, everything else is secondary. As a DE we were required by our SE to make at least a 25% profit on every district activity we did.

[Eamonn]

A few years back thanks to some very serious financial mismanagement things didn't look that great in my neck of the woods.

A special Executive Board meeting was called to discuss the sale of the only camp site that the Council owns. The other is leased from the State,

Almost all the board members made it to the meeting. So many in fact that the venue had to be changed to accommodate the number.

As dinner was being served I asked the wait staff to give me a head count.

Not counting the pros and the office staff we had a total of 63 Board members.

I looked around the room and tried to count how many of these people had ever been to the camp.

I counted eight.

The discussion started numbers were given. How many units used the camp how much it cost, the income from the gas well.

I got up and said if each of us then and there wrote a check for $6,000.00 the problem would go away or if half of us were willing to go $10,000. There would be no need to sell the camp.

The room fell very quiet five people offered to join me in donating $10,000.

It's a real shame when Scout Executive Boards are made up of people who are supposed to be "Money Men" but when asked to put their hand in their pocket their arms get very short.

In the end we borrowed the rest of the money from our endowment fund and didn't sell the camp.

Eamonn

[ghermanno]

About two months ago my Council gave every District volunteer a memo to sign stating that (s)he would do the following for the District.

 

...Donate $xxxx to FOS or Donate $xx to FOS and supply names of people that will donate $xxxx to FOS. ...

 

This was for the "Volunteer" positions. I told my DE "No Thanks". If I donate to FOS it is my donation not the Councils determination of how much I should give to volunteer.

 

They keep asking where my application is for this year... :-)

 

My $0.02

 

Rick

[moosetracker]

This topic has me concerned. My DE would like me to head up FOS, I think he is hoping I would make it my new position.. I am half thinking about it for this year only, thinking I need to pay my dues, and we can't always just opt to run the "fun" parts of the District Committee. But, a year would all I serve in order to feel I had paid my dues..

 

When we talked he just said I had to make sure everyone was asked "nicely".. I sure do not want to take on something that rings of extortion, where I have to bring my armed muscle men Huey & Louie with me in order to rough anyone up who doesn't pay in as much as needed..

 

Also I hesitate over if there is alot of needed visitation and phone calls.. Living outside the district a 30 minute drive away from the very southern tip where then it stretchy to about a 3 hour drive to get northern tip.. That too has me worried, I just can not afford to do it, besides gas, every phone call is considered long distance..

[Basementdweller]

Moose.....

 

NO is an acceptable answer.

 

 

So why do you feel obligated to serve as FOS chairman for your district?????

 

You contribute to the district in you own way.......

 

[Tokala]

Luckily I don't see this practice in my Council. I have seen attempts to sell one of our camps 2-3 times in the last 30 years. My staff adviser snuck me into a Board meeting when I was Lodge Chief so I could see what was happening. We still have that property and continue to make improvements.

 

Our adult volunteer pool is shrinking as fast as the youth membership. No way I try to extort FOS from people. As VP or Program, I need bodies for lifeguards, rangemasters, climbing instructors, camp directors, etc. I make sure the people that I recruit are trained/knowledgeable about their responsibilities, have the support that they need/deserve, and are thanked for their efforts.

 

I hear my SE gripe about the $100K it takes to keep the power and water on at the camps. He holds program responsible for meeting that need. We do our best. Since I stepped up as Program, all programs are running in the black. I have started to drop hints that I can raise that $100K annually very simply....use the SE's salary!

[moosetracker]

Don't know Basement, but I gave my District Training Chair to my son, and though I took a subsidiary job until I find something I like (FOS is not it..).. I am right now kind of foot loose & fancy free..

 

It is hard for the DE to find any volunteers for those jobs that are not fun, membership, and Finance anything (Finance Chair, FOS, Popcorn, etc..).. So normally someone on the committee with another job gets guilted into doing it, for the year.. Although not wanting the position, I really would feel bad to say 'no' and watch someone with another hefty position take on extra work, as I bide my time looking for something "fun".. I guess I like the people on the district staff, and feel it would be helping the team to take it on for this year..

 

[BadenP]

moose

 

With your love of scouting I think you would be much better suited working directly with the kids in a unit, most district and council positions are more politics and squabbling then anything else. Even as a DE the best times I ever had was as Camp Director, Cub Day Camp WDL, working with the OA lodge and JLT. These were a nice diversion from all the work required organizing the FOS campaign, numerous school nights recruitment, putting out district fires(problems) which is what the DE is supposed to do. However working with my district volunteers, unit leaders, and the kids was always the most rewarding to me. In other words bigger is not always better.