emb021 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 "I don't have a problem serving on staff and paying $85 for a week or 10 days worth of food. I do, however, have a problem paying $20 to take a course taught by a volunteer, sitting in a donated church classroom and receiving about 25 cents worth of handouts." I think anyone would have a problem with that. Even with a meal, sounds like it shouldn't have cost more then $10, and even then there would be a slight profit. A slightly different example, am in Toastmasters and twice a year we have several half day training events. We will have food (breakfast type things, nothing hot, including coffee). Costs for the event are food and use of the location (unless we get lucky, and there is no cost) and any incidentals (copying and such). Average is about $10, tho we will have cheaper early registration and higher late registration (may add or subtract a couple of bucks). Another cost we have to keep in mind is if we have people pay by credit card in advance, we lose a small percentage in cc fees, so that has to be accounted for. We try to have the events break-even, but any profits goes back to the district, which uses it to increase incentives for clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Moose, I like the idea of an IOLS patrol meeting prior to the event to cover food and other stuff and allowing the patrols to make their own menus. If memory serves, that was how it was done for my SMF. I know the day long session covering today's SM Specifics and a bit of IOLS had the meals provided for. But I want to say the model troop meeting session and our patrol meetings were used to prep for the weekend trip which woud be today's IOLS. But My memory is going fast with my old age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 As I posted I'm OK with paying my own way. But have to admit that I was a little upset about what the NE-Region charged for the weekend Course Directors conference. I really can't remember the exact amount, but $225.00 seems to be stuck in my head. Add the cost of having to take a day off from work to get there, the cost of getting there and it was a very costly weekend. Again this was a cost that was not allowed to be part of the WB budget. Sad thing was that it wasn't even that good, but a requirement in order to be CD. Ea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Eagle......don't know about your area.... But this year the attendee's complained about the amount of time to complete the course..... Ours is Two weekends...... I know for a fact that having the patrols meet before hand would meet with significant resistance in my neck of the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Now that is a shock Eamonn I would have expected that the cost of the training to be the CD would have been an expense of the course.. That is like saying that we have to buy the food & not charge the participants, and we need to print out all the mega-copies, and not charge the participants.. Unless they fed you lobster and beef tenderloin, that that was over the cost of food, That is not paying your own way, that is spending your own money for a needed expense of running the course. Basement - You do two weekends for IOLS?? Normally it is Friday night, Sat, Sunday.. One weekend.. With the premeeting we end up with 4 hours before the weekend, Then Sat. and out by noon on Sunday.. We take care of two of the skills at the pre-meeting, so it isn't stretching out the time, except for travel time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Our biggest problem is finding out who is coming to training period. When I've done BALOO, we had maybe 6 people attend, and 3 showed up the day of the event. With IOLS, I specified to contact me prior to registering. Luckily everyone but one did, but 2 called me and the 3rd told me in person the day before the event. We did our IOLS from Friday Night to Sunday morning. We squeezed n a lot of info. We won't mention names, will we SCTDAD, but the guy doing the first aid was freaking hilarious and was tops on everyone's list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well it is a Saturday and then a Saturday sunday...... So with your premeeting I bet the courses are similar.......ours is the complete package attend all the sessions and you will be fully trained. YPT and THis is scouting is also offered on the first saturday morning..... There is an interim Patrol meeting between session 1 and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think the real bottom line to this issue is the extent to which councils are using Wood Badge as profit centers. If they are, I think that's reasonably objectionable. I would avoid making a profit off of volunteers who are taking their time and money to learn to provide a quality program for youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Eamonn, Wow, $225 for your CDC? I attended the CDC for the Southern Region at BSA HQ in Irving this past November for $75. Of course, it cost gas from Oklahoma and hotel expense. But those of us going carpooled and doubled up in the hotel, so that cut costs drastically. And to those who assume someone honored with being asked to be a CD has things like the CDC paid for.....NO, not in many councils. Most councils don't have fat bank accounts where they just write checks for this or that. I remember back in 2004 when we were preparing for the 2005 Jamboree and we had a number of boys who were falling behind on payments. The council wouldn't/couldn't afford the postage to send out past due notices. It became a function of the Jambo SM to play collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It shouldn't come out of the councils coffers. That is an expense that should be picked up by the course participants and bugeted for.. That is as essential to running the course as food and paper is.. YES!! I am surprised that it is not. Is that the same for camp director training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Grumpy Ummmph! > Wood Badge increasingly seems like an overproduced activity, sort of like some Pinewood Derbies..... Glad I took the course in 1985 when it seemed to operate pretty. I've given up recommending it myself, but some staffers are always promoting it at every council activity it seems. Sort of a self perpetuating racket these days, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Woodbadge=Amway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay K Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Staff gotta eat, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghermanno Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Well, I had the "privelage" to staff Wood-Badge this past year. The cost in cash was about $100 for staff. Not counted was the time off from work. As this course was a two weekender course that would be a Fri and a Mon off... Oooops forgot that staff has to get there early so need Thursday off and getting home very late on Monday night so need Tuesday to recuperate. Four days times 8 hours is 32 hours (almost a weeks pay) at even $12 an hour equals $384. Now add that the training is two plus hours away in the mountains and you have gas at over $2 per gallon. Don't forget to add the training weekends and stuff too. I see both sides of the coin. I am not sorry that I participated but will NOT do it again. It is much too costly. As to the smaller courses (BALOO/IOLS/Fundementals...) I believe the trainers should NOT pay for training. I appreciate the volunteers giving of thier time and feel it is more than worth a meal or two. I prefer to decrease the "profit" to council and have done so (I have also donated some meals)but the trainers do not pay. I have put on events, such as camporee, for as little as $5 per person with a profit to Council but Council has asked me to charge more so they can justify when they charge more for less. Unfortunately, BSA is a BIG business and must now PAY all the people that used to serve for service and now want CEO pay. Just my $0.02 for what it is worth. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 gerh..... I gotta laugh here, I just got the flyer for the district awards dinner...... First off. The Hall is donated. The Main course is donated. The Staff is volunteer. Bring a side and Desert Bring your own place setting They are charging $10 a head...... There will be 75 people or so there.....So where does that $750 end up???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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