FOS targets?

[AKdenldr]

Okay all,

 

DE sent a document announcing the FOS targets. I'd never seen them before, shocked me a bit. Is this typical?

 

$ 75 per registered Cub

$100 per registered Scout.

 

If we meet our goals we get 15% off camp.

 

Thoughts?

[Beavah]

Shucks. Here I was hopin' someone was taking FOS out to the rifle range. I'd pay a lot for that opportunity.

 

I think that's pretty typical AKdenldr. Lots of councils put out a "cost per kid" thing where they take their entire council budget and divide by enrolled youth members. When yeh do that yeh get pretty high dollar amounts. Yours are relatively low compared to what I've seen, actually.

 

But if you're talkin' these as real targets for what each family should be giving during the Family FOS solicitation, then I'd say that's pretty aggressive, dependin' on the demographics of your population. Typically a big part of the FOS pool comes from the Community FOS campaign (businesses, major charities, high net-worth donors, foundations), so the Family FOS is just a piece of the nominal "per youth" cost.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

OK I'll bite.

 

Yes I have used the $/scout. Purpose is to let folks know how much it really costs the council per scout to have a program.

 

And yes some of the income comes from events fees, scout shops items, etc. But a big chunk does come from FOS.

 

When I did FOS as a DE, while we did have a family campaign goal, we didn't break it down by units. We knew some units could not even give a dollar to FOS, while another unit's FOS donations would be considered in other campaign levels due to the amounts( actually that unit was not suppose to have an FOS presentation at all but I was informed after the fact). And of course everything in between.

 

When I do family FOS now, I still mention the figure because I want folks to know how much is spent providing the camps, program materials, etc. BUT I also donot expect everyone to give that amount. A line I stole from a church's fundraising campaign, "Don't give until it hurts, Give until it feels good." And my intention is just that, I don't want anyone to feel obligated to give, but if you can please do.

[Twocubdad]

They're telling you this is how much you need to raise from your unit?

 

I like Beavah's idea. I'd send it back with a bullseye drawn on it and a number of age-appropriate caliber holes in it.

 

Those numbers are nuts. Do contributions from your pack families through patron lunches count towards these totals? How about gifts to the community (business) campaign (as Beav suggests)? What about employer matching gifts? Gifts made through United Way? Do you get to include popcorn and camp card profits? Do you get to include the income generated by your Scouts attending district and council events?

 

This is the ham-fisted approach to fundraising that turns off more people than it attracts.

[AvidSM]

15% off camp sounds like a resonable incentive. Resident summer camp runs around $300 in my area. That could mean a $45 discount.

 

Our "cost per scout" is around $165 and that is what they ask for at an FOS presentation. FOS makes up for 28% of my council's yearly revenue. Family FOS is 48% of the total FOS goal.

 

The "cost per scout" is misleading, because it is calculated based on FOS providing 100% of the yearly revenue, instead of 28%. So my actual "FOS contribution needed per scout family" is $22 not $165. And it is also missleading because your FOS contribution doesn't go to a scout - it goes to meet your council's operational budget.

 

Why don't they ask for $22 from each family and be done with it? Because not every family will or can give and that will mean the one's who do have to give more. So, they ask for the $165 instead.

[Basementdweller]

Oh I get a big belly laugh at the FOS crap.

 

our DE tells us that it cost the council $120 per boy per year at the council level.

 

 

Really??????? How do you figure the cost?????

 

Be take expenses and then divide it by the number of scouts. Really?????

 

Do you take out the popcorn money? How about all of the golf outings and trap shoots?????

 

Guess someone is over paid.......Because we do not get $10,0000 worth of benefit from our local council and district.

 

I will never give another dollar to the FOS campaign ever. I belong to three friends of camp so and so. I give to them, I send two scouts, not my own to camp, I do not get reimbursed for gasoline, propane, snacks, craft supplies, rope, tents.............

 

I think I give enough.

[CalicoPenn]

"15% off camp sounds like a resonable incentive. Resident summer camp runs around $300 in my area. That could mean a $45 discount."

 

Hmmm - Just doing a bit of back of the napkin math that a parent just might do.

 

Camp costs $300. If I give a $100 donation to FOS, I get a 15% discount on camp - a savings of $45.

 

Now I'm paying $255 for camp instead of $300 but I spent $100 to get $45 off so now I've spent $355 for camp and FOS ($100 + $300 - $45 = $355).

 

The cynical side of me looks at that and thinks - gee, I'll save $55 by paying just for camp.

 

BTW - what incentivizes the parents that won't be sending their sons to camp in the first place to donate $100 to make sure that everyone who is sending their sons to camp get a 15% discount? The way I read those goals is that $100 ($75 for Cubs) has to be raised per scout. To keep the math easy, if you have a Troop of 5, you need to raise $500 - and the way you'll get it is $100 per family - but what if one family isn't going to take advantage of the camp discount and gives nothing? Now the other 4 have to kick in $125 each to meet the $100 per Scout goal - that $45 discount now became a $20 discount.

 

All that being said, I wouldn't have a problem with a Council making the suggestion that the standard donation is $75 per Cub; $100 per Scout. Other non-profits do it all the time. Look at their solicitations sometimes - how many suggest you give a donation of $5? It seems the standard donation suggestion is between $50 and $100 - but there's always higher levels suggested and always a line for "whatever you can give - everything helps." Listen to a public radio station pledge drive - they come right out and ask that you give $50 or some other set amount, often with an incentive for some physical knick-knack that cost them a couple of bucks, but urging you to call even if you can only give $1. I'd also rethink the incentive. The discount idea is a) lazy and b) too easy to calculate that there is no value (as I've shown above).

 

Take a page from public radio - people will donate $100 to get a tote-bag with the NPR logo on it and we all know, but won't verbalize or we just don't care, that the bag is worth $3 - maybe - and that's with shipping! An FOS patch? Maybe fine for a Scouter with a uniform - but not for most parents - but I've got a hunch that if they got one of those "green" shopping bags with the BSA logo on it, the Council's name, and in big letters "I helped the Scouts of XYZ Council" on it, for giving at a certain level, people would gladly pay it without thinking of the value-proposition because while giving until it makes us feel good is a great position, it's also human nature to want to be able to brag about giving to charities without wanting to be viewed as so gauche as to be bragging about giving to charities. Yellow rubber wrist bands for Lance Armstrong's "Live Strong"? Ultimately, that wa bragging - it was saying "look at me everybody, I gave money to Lance Armstrong's charity". NPR tote bags, bumper/window stickers, etc. etc. - bragging.

 

And what makes the bragging a bit more palatable, on a subconcious level (imho) is that it does provide another intangible benefit to the organization - publicity. What mother wouldn't light up if given the opportunity to brag about their cub/boy scout when a food store cashier says something about the bag (and the cashiers/baggers will - at least in my experience)?

 

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

They way I did it when I was a DE and I think they still do, yes I was the one who started it in my council back in the day and they still do it, was take the total operating budget and divide by the total number of youth. I did round up so $91.36 became $92 per scout.

 

Now the brochures we used showed where all income came from: FOS, UW, event fees, gifts-in-kind, scout shop sales, etc. And we also showed where the expenses went to as well: supplies, council properties, salaries, etc.

[Twocubdad]

I've made the same pitch. My point was to give donors, particularly Scout parents, a point of reference as to the cost of administering the program. The obvious implication is to suggest a level of contribution which covers the cost of their Scout being in the program.

 

But is that what's going on here? I got the impression this was more of an assigned goal for the unit, rather than a suggested level. If it's just a suggested contribution, why the difference between Cubs and Boy Scouts?

 

AK, can you clarify for me?

[Crew21_Adv]

AK,

 

Greetings!

 

Over the years I have participated in FOS. Some years greater, some years less.

 

No nonsense about it, the DE and some district/council volunteers, have asked for money.

 

Not every family is financially able to participate. Not a problem. Scouting doesn't need their money so much to create a burden on a family.

 

Although, Some families are financially able to contribute, they do not understand where the FOS money is used. It does help to know why and where the money goes to. During the FOS campaign, DEs and Vol's attempt to explain the income and expenditures in 30 seconds. Meanwhile joking about lost arrows far out in the woods and all those BB's in the grassy field; but after some explanation most families can see there are expenditures and that FOS compliments the council store income.

 

It is good to be explained the average program cost of a Scout thru a year; and establish an average donation request. I have been in councils that conducted FOS but had no tokens of appreciation. Meanwhile I have been in other councils that sent an FOS member a $2 patch for contributing $100. Scouting families (and sometimes unit committees and parents) can appreciate tokens or discounts when they allow an FOS campaign in their unit.

 

Back to your question.

 

Is this typical? Yes, setting monetary goals per Scout (or per family with multiple Scouts) seems to be typical. I've never seen a different goal amount between Cubs and Scouts though. Typically I have seen a discount at camp being presented more like, if 50 percent of the unit contributes at the recommended family amount.

 

If your DE is setting a target amounts, Im not shocked. If your DE is requesting 100 percent participation from all families before offering an incentive, Then WOW! I would really be shocked! Times must really be getting tough.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[Basementdweller]

Last year we fell way short of this artificial goal....

 

 

I got a phone call first from the District FOS chair asking for the Pack Leader, me, to make up the short fall. An amount over $500 if memory serves..... No was my answer

 

 

The next call was from the DE just short of demanding the money...... again No was the answer.

 

So who do I speak with to get a look at the council and district finances......

 

Something is very wrong, The district has only one expense and that is the DE and with all of the popcorn fundraising, the published FOS results and the published proceeds from the golf outing and sheet shoot, ect.

 

We should be $500k to the good.........(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

If memory serves, you can go to your council office and ask to see a copy of their budget. It may be the previous year's though, and that is acceptable, again if memory serves.

 

I also know there is an online database online somewhere that you can look up their tax returns from the latest year filled, which would probably the same thing shown at the office.

 

If you give me the time, I may be able to get the website for you. I do believe you have to register for it, but it is free to do so if memory serves. I think it's guidestar.org.

 

One thing that you may need to remember, although each district has goals, it's based upon amounts raised in previous years and not amounts it actually costs to operate the district. Some district's can barely afford their DE, and I've seen a few that can not only pay for all of their events, but also the DE. So other district's will help out in that. And yes those districts usually merge. But sometimes they do not for a variety of reasons, I'll deal with that later.

 

Also some things are used by all districts,i.e camps, council office and office staff, supplies, etc. And part of a district's goal is to cover that as well, if possible.

 

 

[AvidSM]

It's not that something is wrong with FOS; it's just misunderstood and sometimes misleading.

 

On the books, the district does not finance themselves. They have individual activity budgets that are closed at the end of each event, such as camporees, training sessions, etc. They are not custodial accounts, like for the OA, which you get to keep your surplus and carry it over year to year.

 

Each district activity must be self-funded - it should not lose money. They are in fact in my council strongly encouraged to make money. What revenue the district collects and what material and services it purchases are absorbed into the Council's overall yearly finance budget.

 

This makes it hard to analyze where some of the money came from and where it went to and why. If the districts are wasting money, only the people who ran each event would know. If the council is wasting money, it is difficult to separate out the district's share order to find that out. Neither council nor the district people that are aware of it are going to admit that they are wasting money. Skeptics will always assume they are - and good luck getting an FOS donation from those people.

 

Some councils assume they are the best thing since sliced bread, and think that families would be glad to give their FOS dollars to them. The reality is that most Mom's and Dad's don't even know what their district is, much less their council. They will give their money to their unit; because they know the people they are giving it to and know what it is being spent on.

 

The opposite is true for FOS and this is its inherent flaw.

 

 

 

[shortridge]

Most nonprofit organizations are required to make public their informational tax statements (not quite the same as a tax return), called IRS Form 990s. If you stop by a nonprofit's office and ask to see (or get a copy) of their most recent 990 (I believe for the last three years), they are required to give them to you (charging a nominal fee for copies). You can also get some forms online for free at www.guidestar.org.

 

They don't show the same things as a budget, though. Expense categories may not match up with the actual council budget; some costs may be lumped in with other areas, so make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

 

And many nonprofits, in my experience, file their 990s many months after the end of their fiscal year; they can get an extension pretty easily. So you may be looking at financial info that's two years old.

 

One thing that the 990s do show you are the salaries of top executives, so you can keep an eye on your SE's compensation and compare it to donations and expenses. If spending on program has been going down, but the SE's salary has been going up, you might want to ask some questions, for example.

 

P.S. The council would be the only group filing a 990 - not a district, which is just an internal division of the council. Some councils also have separate nonprofits set up just to run endowment funds.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[OldGreyEagle]

One has to remember, that FOS Targets, Goals, or whatever Corporate Bablespeak your Council uses is true Pirate's Code "Guidelines"