DEs working summer camp

[Eamonn]

Can't help but feel that I need to address this!

 

" you do not need three months to plan fall recruitment, events, and FOS if you have a decent district committee in place, and they all do their jobs, none of the districts in my council were ever left feeling abandoned. We met every other week when we would be relieved at camp for a few days so we could do district work. It sounds to me Eamonn you have some real issues with your own committee "

 

During the ten years I was a member of the District Key 3 we failed to make Quality District one time. Because we were unable to recruit enough of the little fellows who wear the blue uniforms. The District Committee was one of the best I know of.

The Committee members all worked in real jobs. I was self employed and did at times sneak off to attend to Scouting items that I thought were important.

School Night in our area normally happens about the first or the second week in September.

Even though the District is small, we cover 3 school districts. We have 5 private schools,and 18 elementary schools,6 junior high schools and 3 high schools.

All 3 of the School District Superintendents were members of the District Membership Committee.

With their help the kick off for School Night started with a luncheon for all the school principals. This was a working lunch where basic information was passed out, a review of what worked and what didn't work the past year was looked at, idea were exchanged to help improve the recruitment were made and specific problems were addressed. These problems sometimes were that the date for the Council wide night just wasn't a good fit for a school or a school district.

The DE was in charge of making the reservation for the lunch, ensuring that the invites went out to the right people on time. Having any and all hand-outs prepared and of course attending the meal.

The DE also made sure that all the materials for the school night were in place.

This sounds easy, but along with the normal flyer's we have had Fun Bags for new Tigers, wrist bands, balloons and all sorts of junk. While the membership committee filled the bags and helped get this stuff ready. The DE who was working doing her job during school hours delivered all of it to the schools and met with the school secretary (Who really is the person who knows what is going on!) And the school janitors, who as a rule are the only people in the school at night and are the guys who make sure that the doors are open.

The membership committee members couldn't do this because they were doing their real jobs during school hours!

 

I'm having a little bit of a hard time grasping:

" We met every other week when we would be relieved at camp for a few days so we could do district work."

If you are going to take off for a few days every other week? It kinda sounds like the camp was able to run without you?

 

I firmly believe that the work of a DE is in the District that they serve. It doesn't come to a halt just because school is out or because camp is in.

Most DE's (Not all) at camp are about as useful as pockets in your underwear. They are not trained to work at camp, working as a camp commissioner or whatever is not why we pay them as well as we do.

During the summer the DE's who serve the Districts in the Council, do go to camp one day each week to visit the Troops and Packs from their Districts to ensure that everything is OK and sometimes fix things that these Troops and Packs are not happy with. This quality assurance is important. It helps ensure that these units will hopefully return the next year.

Being as the DE is not a member of the camp staff does mean that they are able to take an independent look at things that sometimes camp staff members just accept as being what they are.

I should add that the DE I worked with was a female who wasn't hired until she was in her late 40's. Her only Scouting experiences were from having her son become an Eagle Scout. She wasn't a camper and her idea of the great outdoors was being on the golf course.

She was by far the best DE we have ever had in the Council. She worked wonders with both the volunteers and the local community leaders. Nothing ever sat on her desk for long and together we made a great team.

There was no way I was ever going to lose her for part of the year to walk around a Boy Scout Camp.

Ea.

 

[BadenP]

Well Ea

 

It must be nice to be in a council that is large and can afford extra expenditures so the DE's do not have to work at camp, and you can monopolize your DE's time all year long, but that is not the way it is in most councils, especially the smaller ones.

 

I suggest you reread my post explaining why the SE in my former council chose to do what he did. We were NOT there to run programs or smooze with the scout leaders that attended, most of our time was spent putting out all the problems that crop up behind the scenes that most volunteers and scouts never knew about or needed to be concerned with. During all the years I worked there no one person or district was ever left feeling that their DE had deserted them, no matter what you may think. Your cavalier attitude does nothing to support your position either, which as one who has been there seems rather weak, inaccurate and self centered.

[SeattlePioneer]

I think BadenP and Eamonn have proved it conclusively:

 

Districts are different. Councils are different. Situations are different. It requires good judgment (which can be in short supply) to make smart decisions about how to use the resources available.

 

This is the kind of things Scouts discover when they become Patrol Leaders for the first time, and it's true for District Executives, Council Executives and Chief Scout Executives too, I suppose.

 

My DE had a several years experience as a youth and young adult helping manage Scout camps and camp program before he became DE. Using him as a Camp Director has been an excellent idea.

 

Eamonn's DE had no such experience --- and making her a camp director would have been starting a steep learning curve at a low point. She might have no special aptitutde for program at all, despite doing an excellent nuts and bolts job as DE.

 

Still, if the chips are down for some reason you might have to turn to someone with no experience to do a job as best they can.

 

Sometimes "doing your best" isn't an especially high standard.

[Eagle92]

I agree every council is different, and every SE is different. I now remembered why every DEs here when I worked spent at least 1 week at camp. I now remember that for whatever reason, districts tend to go to camp the same week. And the DEs would usually go the week that most were at the camp. I do not believe the DEs now go tot camp for a week.

 

As for the comment that 'Most DE's (Not all) at camp are about as useful as pockets in your underwear. it is true, at least in my expereince. Even if they go to camp school and get trained, they may not be right type of person, to quote a friend at PDL-1 " A PROGRAM FREAK," to be a camp b/c is completely unique environment that I cannot describe. You have to be willing to get out of your comfort zone and do anything it takes to provide a quality program. If that means dressing up in a toga carrying a torch and saying 'Pizza, pizza to the music of the Olympics for the opening campfire ceremony, to the 2AM run to Wallyworld b/c you just discovered that the order you placed for XYZ supplies was back ordered and you needed them at 8AM,to whatever.

 

Most of the DEs I've met and worked summer camp couldn't understand that concept, EXCEPT the ones who had camp expereince prior to become a pro, whether it was BSA camp or church camp.

 

 

[BadenP]

SP & Eagle

 

You both missed the main thrust of my posts as did Eamonn, as a DE in my council camp we had NOTHING to do with program, we were more the business managers who were the only ones authorized to issue checks for needed expenditures for camp, to deal with staff disciplinary problems that the PD could not deal with, handle camp inspections, or any complaints by scouters and scouts. It was not fun and games or "dressing up in togas" for us. We all rotated the position each month so no DE ever had to spend the entire summer in camp. That was the way the SE wanted it and I can assure you none of us were "program freaks", we were up there for just for the reasons I mentioned, nothing else.

[Eamonn]

BadenP

Much as I hate to keep flogging a dead horse.

The camp employees a Business Manager to do the things you mention.

While maybe in some Councils there is language in a DE's job description that covers working at camp?

There isn't such language in the job description that we have in place.

 

If we take the argument that "There isn't a lot to do"?

Then I suppose it might be said that no time is a busy time.

I really do think that the start of the new school year is in many ways the start or the re-start of the new Scouting year.

Being ready and being prepared for this start is one of the most important times of the year and not having the DE around to attend to it? Just doesn't sit well with me.

 

While most SE's are good people and straight arrows. (Butter wouldn't melt in their mouth!) There are some who would try and move the salary of the DE working at camp, into the camp budget. This would of course make it seem that the cost of running the camp is higher than it really might be and add fuel to the fire when it comes to setting a higher cost for the camper.

Ea.

[BadenP]

Well Ea

 

Your councils methods are not the only way to do things. This was the way that council SE chose to do things due to some serious problems with former camp business managers in the past. He did not try to hide salaries in the camp budget either. So I guess it is time for you to leave that poor horse alone and move on to more important things, as I hope you understand that the "Eamonn Method" is not the only way or necessarily the best way to do things in all cases.

[Eagle92]

BP,

 

No I didn't miss your point. You described your experiences working at camp, as well as other DEs in your council. I'm describing my experiences. As constantly mentioned councils do vary based upon location, as well as DE in charge.

 

In the camps I worked at, the business manager was suppose to be there the entire summer, and while usually was a pro, in two cases the BM was not. And I say suppose b/c I did have to take over some business manager duties when one had emergency surgery and was out.

 

I have seen DEs involved in program, sometimes aquatics and othertimes in shooting sports shooting sports but also some other areas as well. My first year as a pro I had to fill several roles, including a Lifesaving MB counselor. That was the week I was suppose to be a guide on a kayaking expedition, another program position.

 

Second year as a pro, I was suppose to be a guide again for my week ( I was getting married), only to be pulled at the last minute. The CDs for the camp and HA base were not happy campers with that decision as they had to scramble to find a replacement. And when I DID show up to camp, the week after the wedding I might add, I was "as useful as pockets in your underwear" as I was not expected to be there, all program roles were filled, and all support roles were filled, and I had no units in camp that week. So all I did was paperwork and scheduling for the fall. To be honest I think being at camp, when none of my units were there and there was no role for me to play, whether program or support, was a waste of time. Fortunately I could get out of camp when I needed to for meetings that were scheduled.

 

And I have seen pros come to camp only to walk around and do nothing, or worse play around at camp. I can see visiting troops for a day or two, unless you got a brand new troop you're keeping an eye on then you might want to stay the week, but otherwise you are wasting your time.

 

Now if you are working in a role, whether support or program, then absolutely you need to be at camp.

[BadenP]

Eagle

 

I agree with you, in my first year as a DE and as assistant camp director I watched our FD, who was camp director, sit around camp all day drinking with the camp cook instead of doing his job. One day he went into town and bought $200 of booze and charged it to the camp account, well the SE called him in, as soon as he saw the bill, and fired him from not only the camp staff but as FD of the council as well. So I and my fellow brand new DE just out of camping school spent the last 1 1/2 months trading off as camp director, it really was quite the experience but we both learned quite a bit that year.

[Eamonn]

"Eamonn Method"

I like the sound of that!

 

But I feel sure that I'll never get it past HWMBO!

 

This horse is dead, it is no more, it is deceased..

No really I'm done!

Ea.