Your thoughts on honor camping

[OldGreyEagle]

Gee thanks FOG, but I already did that and didnt get a feeling why Mic-O-say got startred when the AO would seem to have served the same purpose.

[NWScouter]

In the council I grew up they had Silver Marmot associated with their Camp Parsons. Back in the late forties and fifties the national encouraged, let's be correct forced most councils to abolish their own honor societies and start OA lodges. In sixties when I was in, the old timers in the council were not supportive of the OA. In fact there was an underground of Silver Marmots. In the last twenty years the Silver Marmots are back as mainly as a staff and camp/high adventure honor program. Their OA lodge name, TKope KwisKwis, they claim in Chinook Jargon means silver marmot but the rest of section loves to refer to them as white rats, a more accurate translation. If you dont know what a marmot is, it is a large rodent (a relative of the groundhog) that lives in rock fields high in the mountains. It whistles loudly as a warning.

[NWScouter]

GOE, OA started just like any of the other Honor Societies. I just spread faster and the national made it the first the one they supported and then the only official society. So at the time the other honor society started, OA was just one associated with a council back east not a national program.

[NWScouter]

I know I've spread out alittle but I meant, It spread, the OA spread.

[flyingember]

http://www.micosay.org/

mother tribe link. Has more history.

 

OldGreyEagle: why was it started? to keep scouts active.

Let's put it this way. Do you know who H Roe Bartle is? He turned down being the exec at the largest council in the nation at the time for Mic-O-Say. His scouting program was the best program for the 20's. He is internationally famous.

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/9426/lonebear.html

 

Thanks for the numbers NJCubScouter

Lets see. assuming OA were as popular as micosay here.

 

In one of my troops we have about 30 scouts and 8 leaders active.

all 8 leaders would be wearing flaps, and 10-15 of the boys. 8 of those scouts are 1st years.

In my other we have 90 scouts, maybe 20-30 really active. 40-50 at meetings. 10 eagles a year. Maybe 30 leaders at meetings, 15 at campouts.

A ton of the leaders would have gotten the flap as a youth, we'd have a line to get in as an adult under the numbers rules. Say 20 of them.

We'd have 50 scouts with the flap, 40 if you assume a popularity contest.

Does that put it in perspecitive? I was conservative on the numbers too.

[Mantowagan482]

If i'm reading this post correctly most of the Mic-o-Say members are also OA members, Correct?

[red feather]

Welcome to the campfire manto.

 

As a scout in the 60 and 70s I never heard of OA. Mic-o-Say was the honor camping society in Kansas City and St. Joseph, Mo. Few of the members of MOS that I know are also OA and they are mostly from outside the area and moved to either KC or St. Joe.

 

MOS has a very high retention rate of the older scouts who wish to advance in MOS. As a youth I earned my Warrior Rank and eventually earned my runner paint responsibilities. In the troop that I am with now several of our older scouts stay active after earning their Eagle so that they can advance in MOS and that is a resource that we are happy to have.

 

Many adults in MOS stay active long after their sons have moved on and that is a great rescource to have. At ceremony you can see new Braves (13-14 yr old )and members of the Tribal Council (60s 70s 80s). Some of the members tribal names indicate 3rd and 4th generation participation.

 

I was proud to have two sons join scouting and eventually MOS. I participated in ceremonies as an Adult Runner working with joining adults and was honored to watch my sons advance to Eagle and Runner.

 

'nough soap box. If you have more questions please let me know and I will sure try to answer them.

 

Adult Runner Tall White Buffalo Guard

 

yis

[purcelce]

Is MOS youth led?

 

 

[red feather]

If by youth lead are there youth chieftains and tribal council, no. Scouts who stay active past 18 can become tribal council due to the time it takes to earn the paint stations to get to tribal council. Runner and higher paint ages are normally 16 yrs old and older once again due to the time it takes to earn these paints.

 

MOS keeps both youth and adults active and interested in scouting. Camp Geigers staff is almost all either Eagle Rank or so close they can smell it. And it is not done for the pay which is very low.

 

Prospective memebers are nominated by both youth and adult.

 

yis

[nldscout]

After looking at MOS info here and on the web site, I have come to the conculsion that MOS is definatly NOT a youth run program. Maybe someone who is a member can show me otherwise. I am surprised national allowed this program to keep on running as it goes contrary to the Boy run programs of scouting. I also noticed that only memebers may nominated youth or adults. Again contray to BSA Goals, kind of snobish for a BS group if you ask me.

[purcelce]

We have a MOS type tribe here in our council, Tribe of Mannaseh. I was inducted last year. The tribe started three years ago. The "values" of the Tribe are great, but our tribe is not youth led, which I have a problem with. I still wear my claws and beads as it this program does have it's merits.

 

 

YIS

Swaking Battle Carp

 

[Mantowagan482]

Red Feather,

 

With regard to what you have said about MOS, it sounds alot like the OA. Two weeks ago I was at the Black Eagle Lodge Fellowship and there are alot of grey haired Scouters there. Attaining the rank of Vigil is not easy probably just as difficult as the MOS's highest rank.

 

What I do like is that we have A boy lead organization granted there are adult advisors, and all of the old grey haired types like to attened the Lodge executive councils, and stay invovled with the leadership but its the boys that have the final vote.

 

I would have to find out more about MOS to make an informed decision, it sounds good on the surface but it would sound better to me if the boys ran it.

[BornInThe60s]

flyingember:

 

You say you don't see many lodge flaps on the leaders in your area. Well, unless your leaders are less than 35 years old, there's a very strong chance they were never exposed to OA as youths, and they probably aren't disposed to have much to do with it now. The HOAC merger may have happened in '75, but I know there weren't many (if any) OA elections held in Missouri troops before I went to college in '83. 25+ years later, State Line Road is still something of a barrier in this council.

 

Come over to the Kansas side sometime. You'll find plenty of Arrowmen leading troops, packs, and volunteering at the District level.

 

Mic-O-Say isn't boy-led. That bugged me when I was first exposed to it as a Scout 25 years ago, and it still bothers me today. If the ideal is to have the boys run their units, why do we have honor organizations that are expressly not boy-led?

 

 

[nldscout]

Not only is Mic-O-Say not boy led. It is a closed membership group in that only memebers can nominate people for membership. This defeats the purpose of scouting being available to all. Me personnally, I think its time for National to put its foot down and disband this type of organization in scouting!

[dsteele]

Mic o' Say is not a national program. It is very strong in several local councils, but you won't find word of it in BSA official publications put out by the National Council. Therefore it is a matter for the local council to determine what involvement and or support the tribe would receive from the council. In every case that I know of where there is a Mic O' Say tribe, it is a mutually beneficial relationship.

 

Other than that, I don't know enough about the tribes to toss in much else.

 

DS