CSE in favor of coed Scouting?

[BadenP]

I think most of you have missed the point here, most of the world scouting organizations are indeed coed and the BSA is behind step of with other scouting associations. This is not about the Girl Scouts being a good or bad program, the fact is over the years through coed Exploring and now coed Venturing and Sea Scouts girls have proven they can be just as effective scouts as boys, sometimes even better. Like it or not it is only a matter of time before scouting in the USA is totally coed, and it will be sooner than most of you think.

[Nike]

Bingo!

[sherminator505]

Scouting is not coed in this country because the GSUSA has never had a close relationship with the BSA and will not merge with it, and the BSA lacks the will to put forth a fully-coed program of its own. Nothing will change unless one of these factors goes away.

[nolesrule]

I wouldn't necessarily consider that the BSA is behind on anything. Gender separation in programs like this is not inherently a negative thing, especially at certain age ranges. The older youth programs of Venturing and Exploring are moreor less beyond the age range where this is a factor.

 

There's theory, and then there's real-world examples like when SMT224 wrote:

 

"Boys are much happier and better off being around boys, and girls are much happier and better off being around girls. When we all camped together, the girls spent their time ignoring the other girls and flirting with the boys, and the boys acted like idiots and spent their time showing off for the girls. "

[skeptic]

While the coed experience with girls being flirts and boys acting foolish might be an issue sometimes, especially initially in a new program, it would likely only last briefly. Once the group bonds and spends enough time together, most of this would evaporate, and they would likely be mostly like siblings and cousins. Granted, there would be a few exceptions; but for the most part, familiarity would ease the problem. You see that happen in other groups of that age that are coed. Often the girls become more focused, probably trying to prove they can do whatever the boys can; and the boys are a bit less willing to completely look like idiots in front of the girls, or to be seen as less capable.

 

And, of course, there is still the option of all girl or all boy troops, even though they "could be" coed. Or, you have all one gender or the other in patrols, with dual upper leadership. Lots of options. At some point it is likely to happen.

[BadenP]

sherm

You might just be surprised to see the will the BSA will put into a plan if they forsee a large increase in membership and revenue, as well as the successes of other coed scout programs in the world. The GSA is not even a factor in the decision as their goals and programs are not not even close to the BSA.

 

nolesrule

Quoting that outdated and untrue analogy has absolutely no bearing as to why coed scouting would be a great success in this country as it is in so many others. Times and culture have changed greatly in the last 50 years. Your argument is no longer considered valid among the so called child experts of today. That is why coed scouting will be an inevitable result, especially if the BSA wants to continue to survive and prosper in the years to come. In fact it is already starting to become a reality if you just look around you.

[desertrat77]

My experience as a parent of daughters, and as a past brownie leader and unit level BSA leader: the vast majority of boy and girl scouts get along fine on coed events.

 

Life is coed.

 

I've heard the reasons against going coed, and respectfully disagree with each. We are only delaying the development of social skills by being gender separate.

 

Eagle92, my daughter will meet that new 13 year old/finish 8th grade clause and is thrilled!

 

 

[BrentAllen]

If Venturing is the model of success for the BSA to go coed, it ain't going to happen anytime soon. Our District had 6 Crews last year, and two of them didn't recharter. Those two had COs that are sponsoring successful Troops. The average membership in the other 4 Crews is around 6. The lifespan of a Crew appears to be pretty short, around 2 - 3 years.

[SMT224]

I do not agree at all with those in the "coed is inevitable" camp. It's not better, and should not happen!

 

I say this as a past advocate of the coed concept - it seemed logical and a great way to do Scouting. But that was before reality showed me otherwise.

 

I've been on about 20 camping trips with the Girl Scouts, and well over 120 camping trip with the Boy Scouts. And 3 mixed camping trips. Small sample? Maybe, but I've noted significant consistency in the observations.

 

Both girls and boys like to play with fire and knives, both like to hike and explore, and both love to camp out and watch a campfire as the evening turns into night. And both girls and boys love to talk - about all kinds of things.

 

A good part of any activity is how the Scouts interact with each other. I have directly witnessed how great boys get along with other boys, and how great girls get along with other girls, and how bad it is to mix girls & boys. It makes a huge difference! Yes, you can do it, but when it works so much better to be non-coed, why change it?

 

[Eagle92]

I've seen different models work. I also know the challenges of mixing in the genders.

 

When I worked at scout camps in the UK for 3 months, it was mostly coed units form several countries. In the UK, units had the option of being all male, all female, and coed. And I did see all three. One all female scout troop was intersting as they split off from a Girl Guide troop b/c the Scouts did more.

 

The Finns at the time had Scouting set up as coed at what would be the Cub level, then single gender for the Scout/Guide level, and then coed at the Venturing level. I don't know how that format came about, but I do know that it is the Scouts and Guides of Finland, and their national emblem incorporate the FDL and Clover leaf.

 

When I talked about scouting works in a coed environment over there, the answer was simple, they do so much with them, and it is so integrated that the idea of dating within the unit is absurd b/c they are "like my sister." that "like my sister" quote came form several Scouts in 2 association.

 

I admit I've seen the flirty/show off behavior exhibited with my staffers at CSDC. We had two females that came in when their crew showed up to help, and it presented some challenges. One female nipped it in the bud real fast, the other was being a flirt, and dad had to intervene. My opinion is that it was the newness of the girls. We had a 3rd girl help out all week. First day was challenging as some of the Scouts were showing off. but her saying " knock it off I'm not interested" ended that.

[fermi91]

more blather OGE (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[sherminator505]

.

[qwazse]

I agree that waiting for kids to grow out of the middle-school drama-every-minute behavior is what makes the Venturing program work as a co-ed thing. The 14-16 year old "flirt" (male or female) can be confronted by older youth and brought in line. The 12-13 year old typically is getting too much of a rise out of the attention (negative or positive) to realize that there's a need to cut the act and get with the program!

 

Bottom line: lacking moms who will push for a culture change, nothing is going to happen. And this nation still has plenty of moms who are very happy with the GS-USA culture for lil' Mary and the BSA culture for Bobby.

 

We only have a minority of girls who feel they should be immersed in the BSA ethos. Moreover, when a venturing young lady starts with the anti-GS speach (most of them have at least one), we instruct them to tone down the rhetoric and do something constructive like promote our next super-activity.

 

Bottom line: Unless there's a groundswell of youth who look around them and say, "Hey, things could be different," things aren't changing. And I don't see a lot of US boys (or girls) who consider the co-ed programs of other nations as anything more than a curiousity.

 

Seriously, do any of you have BS Troops asking their SM's why the Jr. High girls can't come around?

[skeptic]

"Seriously, do any of you have BS Troops asking their SM's why the Jr. High girls can't come around?"

 

It has happened on a number of occasions. Recently by an 11 year old (almost 12).

[SeattlePioneer]

EVERY TIME I'm in elementary schools soliciting boys to come to Cub Scout recruiting nights I get MANY pointed questions from girls about why they aren't invited.

 

I always point them towards Girl Scouts, but Girl Scouts doesn't do the recruiting effort I do. So there are LOTs of girls who feel neglected.

 

So far that resentment hasn't resulted in being excluded from school over that issue, but one mom on the war path over "sex discrimination" might do that any time.

 

And a lot of packs have tag along dens of girls and underaged boys who are Cub Scout hangers on. That's lost membership revenue if BSA wanted it.

 

And there are PLENTY of third and fourth grade girls who will practice their flirting skills on me, a big 61 year old galoot!

 

Sheesh --- if half of them studied that hard they would probably be straight A students!