Support from your council

[RRR3]

It seems to be, our troop does not get any support what so ever from our district or council in anything we do. If you aren't part of the good ole' boy click - forget it. I will give you the last example: One of my scouts just received the "heroism award" on Scout Sunday, presented to him by a Congressman and a State Rep. Over 200 people in attendance, local newspapers, television station, girls scouts. leaders and scouts from another council. BUT not one leader, scout, our district to include our council showed. This is the latest example - I could write a book. We don't get visits from anybody, but we have one of the most active troops in council. (But they always are preaching Friends of Scouting)

Does other leaders have this problem when it comes to support from their district and council.

Somebody needs a wake up call - scouting is about the boys - not the good ole" boys who want to walk around with their look at me knots on their shirt. (I have over 35 years in scouting and don't wear any knots because that is not what I'm here for)

 

[FScouter]

What kind of support do you want? Did you invite anyone to come to your event? Sounds like you don't like them very much.

[The Blancmange]

 

It seems to be, our troop does not get any support what so ever from our district or council in anything we do.

Does your council operate a camp? Do they have someone who records advancement? Does your District run Camporees and other events? Do they run Scouting for Food? Are you in a district where units run their own EBOR's or does the District do this?

 

Did you invite anyone to come to your event?

I was going to ask the same question. I guess it isn't really clear what you are expecting from them that they are not providing. Have you talked to your COR about this and asked him or her to bring that to the Council's attention?

[Scoutfish]

Two things:

 

1) Did you call, e-mail. or ASK them to attend? Did you give them advance notice or make sure they had ample time to plan for it?

 

Thing is. somebody had to co-ordinate all tose people and the media as to when, where , and what time. And lets be honest: The media need new stuff on a daily basis and have the people to go anywhere on a moments notice. But try to arrange that with people who may have had planned their engagements over 3 months ago..

 

2) What's the diss against the knots? Just because some folks make their goal in scouting to be "all about the knots" ...it doesn't mean that's what the knots mean.

 

For example: I am not racist, bigoted, or predjudiced. Just because some racist white supremicits drive pick-up trucks does not mean I will not drive a pick-up. I drive my pick-up truck for my own reasons and do not in any way suscribe to why others do.

 

Same thing with the knots. Some great scouters wear them. I suppose you could say that alot of people are scouters for the wrong reason.

 

Hasn't stopped you from being a scouter has it? Many adults leaders are only in it for their own kids advancement. Doesn't mean thay all are!

 

Of course knot!

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

What efforts do the people in your unit make to be a part of your district and help carry out it's program?

 

In my district, we depend on active units to take an interest in district activities and provide people to help lead district activities. Some units respond to that, others don't.

 

Some districts don't have the volunteers to do much to stay in contact with active unit --- if they have resources, they are probably spending them to help weak or failing units.

 

I've been Unit Commission for seven years for a Cub Pack that was failing when I found it, and has been a succesful and active program for most of that time now.

 

I've been the primary contact the unit has had with the district.

 

But unit leaders haven't made an effort to help with the district program or to stay in contact on their own initiative, at least not until the Cubmaster began attending Roundtable the past couple of months. He's starting to get introduced to people around the district and get a much better idea of what's going on.

 

The most open way to access the district and council programs is to attend Roundtable. If you do that for three or four months you should start getting an idea of what's going on and who the actors are.

 

Second and more directly, you can attend your monthly meeting of district leaders. That ought to be less fun than Roundtable since it's primarily a business meeting, but for that reason you will get a more direct and detailed understanding of what the district is doing and who is doing it.

 

It would also be a way for your district leaders to become acquainted with you. While pretty much any unit leader would probably be welconme at district meetings, a Committee Chair, Scoutmaster or Cubmaster would probably be the best choice as a visitor.

 

District volunteers are often unit volunteers as well. I'm Cubmaster for a unit that was down to a single Scout two years ago, and I've been doing a lot of work to revive that pack. In addition to that I'm Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner, District Membership Chair and Unit Commissioner for a pack that just crossed 15 boys into Boy Scouts last night at a Blue and Gold Dinner where I was the Friends of Scouting Presenter.

 

And oh, yeah, I wear three knots. I hope you don't find that disqualifying.

 

 

[packsaddle]

"We don't get visits from anybody"

I sympathize. But in my view, count your blessings. Ignore the FOS if you want to. If you feel like you're on your own, it's a rational feeling because you ARE. But if your unit is doing well, what more can you ask, really?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[OldGreyEagle]

First of all, please do not think you are being piled on, although I could certainly see where you might think that. This group is not a bunch of good ol' boys just in scouting to wear knots, you can check out the knot discussions in the uniform threads, not fun.

 

Something that struck me about your post was :

 

"One of my scouts just received the "heroism award" on Scout Sunday"

 

To get the heroism award, the Council has to approve it and send it on to National so in this case the Troop you serve did indeed get support from the Council.

 

What type of support would you like to see?

[RRR3]

To everybody sending me a reply. Thanks you for your input - I really mean that

*Yes - our council is well advised in advance of all our activities and invited to all functions

*Yes - I have knots, but choose not to wear them

*Yes - Council had to review the heroism award paperwork - but I caught them in three LIES and only

was the matter resolved after I went to the National

*Yes - I have been lied to in the past on other matters by council

*Yes - I have a very successful troop - very active in the community and supported by the community

(When I say I - it's all our leaders and committee members)

Once again to everybody - thank you for your input.

 

 

[Eagle92]

RRR,

 

#1 choosing to wear knots is personal preference. As noted there has been numerous discussion on that topic. I will say this to everyone, regardless of whether they wear them or don't:

 

PLEASE GET IT RECORED THAT YOU EARNED IT AND KEEP A COPY OF THE CERTIFICATE!

 

I emphasize that because there are training codes for them in SCOUTNET, and since training of some sort is involved, usually everything to be considered trained and then some, having it recorded that you earned XYZ Knot could verify that you are indeed trained. I had soem training record problems and my Training Award was proof I did the training.

 

#2 I can tell you from first hand experience than DEs do work their butts off. Grant you the Heroism Award IS a big deal and would have definitely been there if I was still a DE, but trust me their time is limited and usually scheduled in advance.

 

#3 In reference to the lying, don't know exactly what they lied about, but agree with ya that it is WRONG!

[Lisabob]

OK so it might have been nice to see some district or council folks at the heroism award presentation, I guess.

 

Specifically, what else do you want to see? Where do you feel that your troop's program would be improved,if you had more support from your council? What would that support look like?

 

Keep in mind, council/district are not supposed to provide program or leadership to your unit. The main things district or council typically provide are typically information (training, timely info about events/opportunities), advice when asked (UCs), and facilities (summer camps, etc.). Councils also provide a clearing house for paperwork (tour plans, recharter, etc). I know there are additional items that some districts and councils may offer, but I think these are the biggies that most units would see.

 

So what is your council not doing, that you would like to see, in order to improve your troop's experience?

[Oak Tree]

I'm trying to think of what support I need or want from my council.

 

The answer I find is not much, but there are some items that are convenient, and there are some items we've made some use of.

 

I do expect my council to be polite to me, tell me the truth, answer questions about the program, etc. They do all of these things.

 

The most convenient support I receive is that council operates the Scout store. It's nice that it's well-stocked. I guess I could order everything from national, but it's nice that I don't have to.

 

The district sponsors roundtables. These are fine, but in reality, I'm not sure I learn all that much.

 

The district offers training and the council runs the UoS. Training, in general, is not great and could mostly be replaced with on-line education and actual testing to verify that you've learned the material. University of Scouting is actually pretty good. Wood Badge was well done. It's nice that these are provided, but I view them as bonuses. Most of the other leaders in the troop don't make too much use of them.

 

The district helps with rechartering. This is clearly a process that should be entirely on-line and could be done by a national center.

 

Special events - I don't know. I guess it would be nice if they came to a big award ceremony. We did have a Scout funeral - multiple tv cameras, probably 600 people. No one from council. It was ok with me. They weren't the people who were special to the Scout. But the DE did arrange for a guest speaker for our troop meeting and he attended that meeting. It was very well done.

 

Camporees - We usually go to our district camporee but only occasionally go to the council camporee. They've been good some years, not so good other years. Really, I think our Scouts would be just as happy to do something else that month, and sometimes they do plan options. We usually have at least some Scouts who want to go to the district camporee because of tap-out. That's another thing the district does - run the local OA chapter. Our Scouts hardly make any use of it.

 

The council processes our tour permits. This is a virtually useless process. The same thing could be accomplished just by having us enter the data via a web form and they could store it somewhere. It's not like they need to "approve" it anyways.

 

They've provided us a unit commissioner. We've had some nice people over the years. Always friendly. Rarely did we have anything we asked them to do at all.

 

District Eagle boards. I guess the district pretty much has to have some way to do these. Ours is working pretty well.

 

My sense is that the biggest things the council does are 1) try to start new units, 2) raise money, 3) run a summer camp, and 4) fight fires. Our troop didn't get started that way, we don't benefit much from the fund-raising, and we go out of council for summer camp. Someone has to be there to deal with the inevitable personality conflicts or youth protection violations or whatever, but I can't recall anyone in the troop talking to council on an issue like this since I've been SM. I know of one or two items earlier in troop history.

 

So what do I really expect of council?

1. Be reasonably effective at processing whatever bureaucracy is being imposed on the units. (tour permits, recharter, provide any required training, ...)

2. Run a good Scout store.

3. Help do the Eagle boards of review (district, really)

4. Be polite/friendly/reasonable, don't lie, don't be jerks.

 

Everything above that is a bonus.

 

RRR3 - what do you expect from council? So far we've heard about two items - attendance at a heroism award, and expecting them to process the award without lying. I do expect the latter, but would view the former as just a bonus.

 

You clearly perceive some serious issues here, but I don't think we've really seen enough to understand.

 

Why do you think they lied to you about the heroism paperwork? Do they have it out for you and/or your Scouts? Were they embarrassed by their incompetence and didn't want to admit to it?

 

At any rate, no, I don't see the same problems you do. Some other forum members do, and have posted about them in the past. At the same time, as long the council lets us run the program, I don't really expect much else from them.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Triple "R,"

 

 

 

Some unit leaders tend to be hypercritical of district, council and/or national Scout organizations. Others will be highly supportive of the same groups.

 

I'm not exactly sure where that variation comes from, but I see it happening fairly commonly.

 

I'd guess that the only way that is likely to change is if you become more active and acquainted with your district and council volunteers and programs, by helping to organize them.

 

Frankly, it sounds like your program is doing very well. If I were a district or council volunteer I'd probably be aiming to spend my time on units that were weak or failing, and thanking God for units like yours that could carry on a fine program with minimal support from the district and council.

 

I suppose that may not be "fair," but it's the kind of reality I face as a district volunteer much of the time.

 

As far as I'm concerned, you are entitled to feel your grievances. You probably have high standards and perhaps the district and council doesn't measure up to those all the time, just as you say.

 

In the Cub Scouts, we do our best. Sometimes that's not as good as we might like.

[ScoutNut]

You still have not specified what kind of "support" it is from your council/district that you expect, but are not getting.

 

 

>>"our council is well advised in advance of all our activities and invited to all functions">"We don't get visits from anybody, but we have one of the most active troops in council.">"Council had to review the heroism award paperwork - but I caught them in three LIES and only was the matter resolved after I went to the National"

[Scoutfish]

 

RRR3,

 

You were asked:

 

"What efforts do the people in your unit make to be a part of your district and help carry out it's program?"

 

The closest thing toi an answer I sw was:

 

" I have a very successful troop - very active in the community and supported by the community."

 

But what about your council? What about your district?

 

Do you attend RT? Do you go to district or council events? Camping? Ceremonies?

 

Do you sell or participate in things like popcorn or SCouting for food?

 

In what ways do you support or work with your council?

 

Used to be a time when some leaders in our pack would say council or district was unknown in our pack...but our pack did the minimal popcorn and that's it. Nobody went to RT, meetings, trainings, or council/ditrct campouts, or day events.

 

Soince I have become CM, I have been to every RT, several banquets ( councils are sooo boring - districts are pretty nice) volunteer at camps, became camp promotor, been to trainings and POW WOW and am on a first name get recognized across a crowded room by council registrar and DE and UC.

 

DE has me listed by first name only on his cell phone.

 

 

You know what I want from them? Same stuff ScoutNut listed.

 

You know what they want from me? Nothing more than I want from them..plus a friendly attitude.