Does COR HAVE to be a member of the Chartering Organization?

[5yearscouter]

Does the Chartered Organization Representative have to be a member of the Chartering Organization?

Or can the Institution Head/Executive Officer of the Chartering Organization choose someone else as COR say a scouter with a boy in the unit, but who isn't a member of the Organization?

 

I need chapter and verse from BSA policy and procedure requirements.

I see it on scouting.org under description title

"Is a member of the chartered organization other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader. Is appointed by the chartered organization to serve as its official Scouting representative and is registered as an adult leader of the BSA."

 

This comes up because of a complaining parent going to council to remove COR because he's not technically a "member" of the business that charters the unit--because the COR approved someone that the parent does not want to be scoutmaster. so he's trying to remove the COR and get someone in their place. The business in question is hands off (as most COR's are).

 

this might have far-reaching ramifications IMHO. For instance, a pack chartered to the parents of pack 123, when that parent no longer has a boy in the unit, they can't be COR anymore. A Troop chartered to the Elks, the Elks appoints a COR that happens to be a scouter but doesn't belong to the Elks club, that's not ok. Shouldn't BSA be denying these COR applications without proof the COR is a member of the Chartered Organization??

 

 

 

[UCEagle72]

From the opening page of "The Chartered Organization Representative" (available online at - http://www.box.net/shared/v4lrsxatqq)

 

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

 

The following official description of a chartered organization representative is found in the current revision of the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. Refer to Article VI., Local Councils, Section 3, Chartered Organization Representative, Clause 7, which reads, "In territory supervised by local councils, each chartered organization shall appoint a volunteer, other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader, as its chartered organization representative to represent it as a member of the district committee and as a voting member of the local council."

This excerpt means that

 

1. The chartered organization representatives primary responsibilities are to help units to be successful and to provide coordination between the chartered organization and Scouting.

 

2. The chartered organization representative is automatically a voting member of the council and the district upon selection or appointment by the chartered organization. The individual must be an adult U.S. citizen and be a registered member of the BSA during the period of time that the chartered organization designates this person as chartered organization representative.

 

3. The chartered organization representative is encouraged to become an active participating member of one of the districts committees.

 

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

 

I see nothing that says they need to be a member of the Chartered Organization -- just appointed BY the Chartered Organization.

 

(Of course, I just taught CoR Training this past Saturday at our District Training Day.)(This message has been edited by UCEagle72)

[5yearscouter]

I can find this

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack/chorr.aspx

 

says

Is a member of the chartered organization other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader

 

but that is cub packs

and doesn't say the same thing as the other more "formal" documents say, does it?

 

[ScoutNut]

The COR is appointed by the head of the Chartering Organization. Their BSA application is approved by only the head of the Chartering Organization and the local Council.

 

While it is a good idea, and recommended by BSA, that the COR be a member of the CO, it is not a hard and fast National requirement. Charter Organizations can pick whomever they wish to represent them.

 

The ONLY one who can remove a COR (besides the local Council Scout Executive for something like Youth Protection) is the head of the Chartering Organization.

 

So, let your parent go complain to council. They will undoubtedly refer the parent back to their Charter Organization.

[5yearscouter]

Well I'm a COR that could be effected by this as fall out if Council decides to force this issue, as I'm COR and my son won't be a member of our parent chartered pack once he crosses over to the troop. Well, unless they make me an honorary parent of the pack, to make me an official "member" which is just silly paperwork pushing IMHO

 

I'm only holding the title for a year more until we can get someone else experienced/trained/knowledgeable/committeed enough to take the job-- most likely cubmaster or committee chair will take the job and find a replacement for their job and train them in the coming year.

 

Council is the one coming back with this as a way to replace the COR in a troop since he approved the scoutmaster that a disgruntled parent has an issue. Scoutmaster choice had a political discussion with his friends online that the parent did not agree with.

 

Edit to remove way too many details that are best left unsaid at this point.

 

Parent is a district commissioner is stirring the pot with a district executive who is stirring with council peoples.

 

blah

why can't adults play nicely with others?

(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

[AlFansome]

 

So to sum up:

 

- your Pack is chartered by a "Parents of ... " organization

- you're the COR for the Pack (and the Committee Chair as well it seems by looking at some of your previous posts).

- you've got a parent annoyed at the new choice to be Cubmaster (not Scoutmaster, right) and this parent is active in District and has the SE's ear.

- this choice of leader is an issue because of some online political comments

 

Questions:

 

- do you personally have the support of the other parents in the Pack?

- do the other parents know about the comments and what is the consensus?

- who is the IH (Institution Head) and/or how is the CC chosen in the pack?

 

Actions:

 

- If the SE gets involved, tell him to go pound sand. None of his business. If you want to play his game, then get a parent on your side to be the COR who will be around for a while, you stay the CC, and THEN go tell the SE to pound sand.

- If you have support of the parents, tell the one disgruntled parent to go pound sand (or vote with his feet and find another pack).

- If parents are wavering, then you've got to re-consider the choice of leader and/or make the case for him.

 

Unfortunately, with a "Parents of ..." CO there is no ultimate authority who can just put their foot down and make a decision that sticks. It turns into personalities and factions and hurt feelings all around when conflict arises. You really need to count heads and see if this is a fight that you can win.

 

[ScoutNut]

Your Council CANNOT say who a Charter Organization can, or can not, appoint as their representative. It is TOTALLY their call.

 

Even with a "Parents of" CO, someone must be designated as Institutional Head(IH) of the CO on the Charter. If this person is behind you, then there should be no problem. If the IH does whatever anyone with the loudest voice, or the most perceived pull, tells him to do then you could have a problem.

 

As COR, I recommend you give the Scout Executive (SE, top of the food chain professional Scouter), not the District Executive (DE), of your Council a call and have a little chat on the subject.

 

[ScoutNut]

Problems like this one is why all CORs should be fully trained, and fulfill their responsibilities to their District, and Council by participating in District and Council Committee meetings as voting members.

 

 

[UCEagle72]

I go back to my original posting ...

 

Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America

Article VI., Local Councils, Section 3, Chartered Organization Representative, Clause 7

 

These are the "official rules" -- no where does it say you must be a member of the Chartering Organization to be the CoR.

 

If you need a copy of the "Rules and Regulations" - you can get them here:

http://www.box.net/shared/ogrtasdf53

 

[UCEagle72]

Amen, Nut, Amen!

[5yearscouter]

This is two different units. my pack chartered by the parents of.... is ok. But a little concerned that "council" is saying that COR has to be a member of the chartered org, citing the link on the scouting.org link I posted.

 

I'm IH and COR, used to be CC too of my pack. Parents at one time elected me to all those positions, and I've been backing my way out of each of those jobs over time so by the time my younger son is in the troop I'll be just about done. I'll pass it off sooner if I have to.

 

 

 

my older son's troop is the one with the complaining parent, who is also a district commissioner who is raising a fuss that there was unscoutlike behavior[ a political discussion online and facebook] on the part of the scoutmaster elect. Parent threatened committee with taking this info to the district committee, the council, national and the media. He wants his friend in as scoutmaster, who was the troop's 2nd choice.

 

Troop committee has reviewed the issue, reading all the details instead of cut and paste parts of discussions, and has voted to retain the scoutmaster elect and told the complaining parent to go take a hike.

 

 

He seems to have taken it to district and council. Someone at council called scoutmaster yesterday to say they won't approve the new scoutmaster's application, but I'm not sure if it's the District Exec, or Scout Exec or who will not approve the app.

 

They also brought up the COR needs to be replaced too because he's not a member of the chartered org. The troop is chartered by a business group, so defining member would be difficult. since COR is not an employee, he's a member of the business group's scouting committee (or whatever you'd want to call it)

 

It's a sticky wicket.

 

"council" wants COR changed, they mentioned some in committee too, and the 2nd choice person for Scoutmaster put in instead of this guy. Of course 2nd choice stormed off in a huff, refused to come to meetings and said he's starting a new troop when he wasn't chosen as scoutmaster. And the boys all saw this and do not want him as scoutmaster at this point either.(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

[Abel Magwitch]

UCEagle72 cites directly from the current Rules and Regulations that there is nothing written about a cor actually being a member of the co. Yet the national website states otherwise. I have seen dual sets of policies and procedures before in the realm of advancement.

 

I have personally experienced the SE making his own rules under the guise that he is interpreting an official rule or regulation. The SE made up rules actually contradicted the official rules and regulations but alas, it wasnt convenient to the council to follow the rules. And the volunteers aren't capable of understanding BSA policies and procedures.

 

5yearscouter, if your council feels that removing you as COR will resolve some controversy, they will do it regardless of what is right.

Perhaps the parent in question is a big donator. Unfortunately, you will not win even though the official rules and regulations doesnt include anything about the COR being a member of the Sponsoring Institution.

 

Welcome to the politics of Scouting.

 

I used to think that CORs really had a vote; a vote that counted. But after my own experiences with my own council and also reading what happened in the Chicago area council with their camp Owasippe, I realized that the COR vote is nothing more than a formality.

 

In my council rules, regulations, policies and procedures are only followed if convenient to the professional staff.

 

Good luck 5yearscouter.

 

[clemlaw]

>>>>These are the "official rules"

[5yearscouter]

I am not COR of the Troop in question

I am COR of the local Pack

there is not the same chartered org for each of these units.

 

just to clear up any further confusion.

 

if council persons want to push the COR has to be member thing

4 units will not have COR's that I know of right now, including my own.

 

what happens if your COR is removed?

 

I'm gastly afraid that if the COR is removed and council puts this District Commissioner in his place, the troop that has been in existence for 85 years will fold as people flee like crazy.

 

That would be BAD.

 

 

[Oak Tree]

If the COR is removed, the IH of the CO would need to appoint a new COR. The COR can only be appointed by the CO, not by the BSA.

 

I personally find it unlikely that council would force such an issue. BSA professionals are trained to leave these things to the COs and to refer them back to the COs. They might tell the CO that the CO has an issue with leader Jim Bob, and they might even suggest that the CO investigate some of the complaints.

 

I can't see why a council would even want to consider forcing this issue on a bunch of units at once.