Council Exective is a bully

[lilizard62]

Our Council Ex. is a bully. He recently was denying Tour Permits, calling us to the Camp Office and asking us to show proof of our Tour Permit at one of our approved trips. Making our Scoutmasters take the Leaders course over. (Apparently our records were never recorded when our Leaders took the course the first time), We are being denied to do any fundraising because we didn't sell popcorn this year. They can't keep good employees. They all leave.

I thought it was just that he didn't like us. But talking to other Scoutmasters, they feel the same.

He is horrible to talk to. I am afraid to approach him for anything. I don't want to be in Scouting if I have to deal with this man.

[moosetracker]

Well somethings may have a reason. such as the tour permit. If you don't have someone trained in hazardous weather then, the tour permit can be denied.. Also many councils our updateing there training records knowing they are inaccurate, but taking the scout at his word and updating now based on what the scout say. But some councils are not, yours is not the only one.. and I fear that as it is "officially" manditory the other councils will not either. This I suppose due to the fact that YPT was required this year, and this needed proof of your certificate, not your word.

 

As many people on this site inform me, the tour permit is not needed for the insurance. I guess a council can threaten not allowing you to recharter without it, but if it is true that many units are getting the same treatment, you can form a boycott.. Council will be hurt far worse by the loose of 25 units and would not make good on the threat.

 

In total of all things though he does sound sort of like a dictator. Problem is you may get by with that if you are paging wages, and jobs are few. But, this type of stance with a volunteer organization just means a loss of good volunteers and unit.

 

Plus if people are not going out on events because of denied Tour Permits, and being put on the rack over going without, the kids will bore of the program and leave.

 

Overall his success is based the numbers of people registered in the program, and the running of the area smoothly through dedicated volunteers.. Are you sure it is not district Exec, rather then Council Exec. Reason I ask is I know few people at the unit level needing to approach the CE for much. I am working at the District level and have yet to cross paths with the CE.. More our Key-3 will work with the CE.

 

But the Tour-permit is not an operation of the DE. Usually that is more a person working in the office doing it for all the districts of the council.

 

Seriously if there is a problem that is felt not just with your one unit or with a few units, then you really could make a serious statement by throwing a joint revolution of sorts.. But it would have to be Council wide, not just district wide. District wide would hurt your DE.. two districts just those two DE's.. It would have to make a statement that is council wide.

 

Or you can just let things run their course, and allow people to drop out of the program over time that will either get the Council Exec to change before he is fired, or get fired in a few years time.

 

Also I would start holding on to those little training cards you receive from your training.

[ScoutNut]

Your leaders should check on the MyScouting site on the BSA Web site to see what ScoutNet has recorded for their trainings. BSA added an easy way to check onsite.

 

Also, instead of suffering in silence, get your COR (and the COR's of other units) to do his/her job. They are members of the District Committee. They should attend the meetings and make their voices heard there.

 

 

[lilizard62]

YPT, training, and other stipulations in filling out Tour permits have been addressed by our Troop. The latest issue is fundraising. He is denying our annual chicken BBQ plate sale and all other fundraising activities because we didn't sell popcorn this year.

Can he do that?

[shortridge]

First, the council is within its rights to ask that you show your tour permit when you are at camp. The application form clearly states: "This permit should be in the possession of the group leader at all times and displayed when requested by Scouting officials or other duly authorized people."

 

Second, as moosetracker noted, training records across the country are all screwed up. You're not being picked on.

 

Third, as to your question about fundraising and popcorn sales: Of course he can't do that. That would handicap a non-popcorn-selling unit from raising any money until the next popcorn round. Ridiculous.

 

To start with, take a good look back over your application and make sure all your ducks are in a row so that the Scout Executive can't fall back on another reason to deny you.

 

Your next call needs to be to your COR, who needs to call the SE and demand corrective action. The message needs to hit several points:

 

1. This fundraiser complies with the rules on the unit money-earning application.

2. Popcorn is not a required Scouting activity.

3. You are hurting my unit's ability to carry out the Scouting program. Fundraising is a local unit activity and decision, decided upon by the PLC, TC and CO, and your made-up rules are harming my organization's programs.

4. If you continue in this boneheaded line of thinking, I will take this issue to the next Council Executive Board meeting and ask for a vote of no confidence. I understand that you may be under pressure to increase council fundraising, but you do not have the authority to deliver retribution on units that don't sell popcorn.

[moosetracker]

A am not one totin' the rule book in my head. But this is what I have been told about the Fundraiser form..

 

Basically it is just a form that

a) makes sure that you are not doing your car wash across the street from Troop XYZ car wash, thus lowering the success of their fundraiser..

b) makes sure that it meets the Boy Scout appropriateness.. You can not sell beer or hold anything remotely associated with gambeling, or just ask for money without offering something in return (service or item).

c) You have asked permission from the property owners, and have gotten any permits you need from the town or whatever..

 

(there may be more..) So on these reasons a fund raising permit can be rejected.. Since they have the right to reject the fund raising permit, then I don't know if they can put their own conditions on it.

 

So do you have a good relationship with your CO?.. Could your CO sponser the fundraiser for you, and your troop work it and for your work you receive the profits.. It is sneaky, but your Council can not forbid your CO from having fundraisers, and he can not deny your CO from giving your unit funds.. You may need to change the name of the annual BBQ this year to sneak it through. Something like "Church XYZ BBQ in support of Troop 123"

 

Next year, sell one or two boxes of popcorn. Now you have participated in the popcorn fundraiser.

 

I know in our Council, we have out Camperships tied to popcorn fundraiser.. If the scout does not participate in popcorn fundraiser & hikeathon, then he is not eligable for a campership.. Thinking is the scout should do what he can to earn the camp fees himself, and then ask for help. I don't know if similar in all councils or not, or not..

 

Something I learned in these forums is that the popcorn fundraiser use to be that 100% profit went to the troops.. Nothing went to the Council, it was just something BSA offered to troops as a way to do fundraising, and they could care less if you utilized it or not. Then someone got greedy, and now it is seen that you are not supporting your council not to sell popcorn. Problem is the merchandise has gotten poorer in quality and more expensive as the years go on, and with most units they would now choose to opt out of it, if not being made to feel that they are not supporting their council to do so..

[lilizard62]

Thanks for all your help.

Our Troop tries to comply with all the rules and policies that need to be addressed when doing anything. Sometimes we overlook new rules and policies that have been recently put into action. Honest mistakes on our part. WE fill out Tour Permits and we follow Unit Money Fundraising rules and we are helpful in our District. I do carry our Tour Permit at every outing.

Be assured that we are not trying to fool the Council or get away with doing things with out the Council's knowledge.

Our Council Ex is a jerk.

[ScoutNut]

Popcorn is not a BSA National Fundraiser. BSA has no National Fundraiser.

 

Councils do their own fundraising to cover their own budget, and pay their bills. Part of that is FOS. Part of that, in SOME (not all) councils, is a popcorn sale by the council membership.

 

Councils decide for themselves what kind of fundraiser they want to do. If they are going to do a product sale type of fundraiser they have to get their membership involved in order to actually sell in any kind of volume. For that there needs to be some incentive for the membership. Councils decide the product they will sell, and the vendor they get that product from. They also decide how their profit scale is set up, and what is used for incentives. In most sales of this kind that I have been involved in, or heard about, the units get 30% of the profit, and the Council receives 70%. Out of that 70% the Council has to pay the vendors for the product and incentives. That is usually about 30%, which leaves the Council with 40% profit. Most Councils will also increase the units profit over 30% in some form or another.

 

As I stated earlier, your COR needs to get involved. Other CORs need to get involved. The CE needs to be reminded that if their units can not do money earning activities, there is no way in heck that they will be able to cough up any FOS monies at all. Not to mention that on top of no FOS money, the units might fold, leaving Council with a drop in units, membership, and money. I am sure that BSA National will be thrilled about that.

 

The CORs need to point out to the CE - clearly - how he is cutting off his nose to spite his face, and what the consequences of that idiocy might be, and they need to do it soon.

 

 

[lilizard62]

Forgive my ignorance.....What does COR stand for. For that matter PLC, TC, CO. I have an idea but ahhh I am not sure.

[ScoutNut]

CO = Charter Organization (the community organization that owns your unit)

 

COR = Charter Organization Representative (usually a member of the CO, they "represent" the CO to their unit (Pack/Troop/Team/Crew/Ship), their District, and their Council)

 

PLC = Patrol Leaders Council (youth leaders in the Boy Scout Troop)

 

TC = Troop Committee (adult volunteers who support the program)

 

 

[Eagle92]

COR = Charter Organizational Rep. that's the person who sis suppose to represent the unit on the district and council level,i.e. is a voting member of both bodies, wears silver loops and no unit number if in uniform, etc.

 

 

PLC = Patrol Leaders' Council. that is the group of youth leaders who run things in the troop. Some troops may add others besides the PLs and SPL, i.e. Troop QM, Historian, treasurer, etc.

 

 

TC = Troop Committee

 

CO = Charter Organization.

 

 

[lilizard62]

I don't understand.....What can our COR do. Except listen. Our Priest doesn't really interfere with Council matters. He is grateful that his parish has a Boy Scout Youth Group.

[lilizard62]

I should have waited for your response Eagle 92. Hmmmm, My Scoutmaster prefers to not make more waves and stay away from Council activities. He doesn't understand that rechartering is coming up and Camporee, and other Activities that we normally go to to fill up our quota of Camping activities.

[BadenP]

lilizard

 

"If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem!"

 

Look, ignoring the problem will not make it go away, follow the advise of others here and get your COR involved, if other units feel the same way get their COR's involved too. If you take no action then all you are doing is committing a great disservice to your unit.

[ScoutNut]

If your Charter Organization does not want to stand up for, or behind, it's units then there is not much that unit volunteers can do.

 

The most that a single volunteer can do in your situation is to put a big goose egg on the yearly FOS form, along with an explanation of why you are not contributing.

 

This is why it is important for Charter Organization Representatives (CORs) to do their job of being a voting member of the District/Council Committee, and actually participate in the running of their Councils. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your viewpoint!), most are like yours, and do nothing.