Leaving Camp

[SMT376Richmond KY]

Hi all

 

Need your input. We had our first hike in backpack campout of our new troop this weekend. Plan was the farm was about 5 miles from our meeting hall. Left cars at hall Firday evening and was driven by parents to short cut to site where we planned to backpack in. All went well going in only 1.2 mi had map and compass to follow up instruction of new Tenderfoots on thier Secondclass skills. All were very interested in using the map and compass to discover where we were and where we were going.

 

Saturday wadded in creek and hiked length all had fun. One ASM had to leave camp at 4 for fire dept work. No problem left myself, and another ASM with 6 boys. Half hour later while skipping stones across a knee deep pool one of the boys actually walked into a skipping stone and cut his forehead. Being an ER Nurse I treated the wound but it obviously needed stiches. I made the decision to pack up and hike out since, if I was taking the injured boy to ER would only leave 1 adult with 5 boys. Clearly against YPT. Injured Scout was fine no S&S or concussion etc. wound treated and dressed appropriately (good chance for boys to practice first aid skills learned druing tenderfoot).

 

I was proud of the boys on the way out as we had to take a different route so the cell phone would work. They really jumped in and looked after thier fellow scout during the 5 mile (with full packs), hike out with little complaints of being tired etc.

 

Parents at Monday's meeting are questioning why we had to leave. When I explained YPT guidelines of no 1:1 contact with boys, several said "thats stupid". I asked them to come along next trip and to even sign up as ASM's so the next time this will not have to occur. Sound like I handled it right? Was buggin out appropriate for this situation?

[OldGreyEagle]

SMT376Richmond KY, You did the right thing.

 

[eisely]

Sounds to me like you handled the situation correctly. The priority was treatment for the injured scout. If that meant the outing ended a little early, it ended a little early. You ought to schedule a session of YP training for all the parents, particularly those who question the policy. How anybody could question the wisdom of the two deep rule in light of the scandals in the Roman Catholic Church is beyond me. Don't these people watch TV or read a newspaper?

[NJCubScouter]

There's no question about it, and I think the parents need to understand that the 2-deep rule is not aimed only at the kind of conduct we primarily think about when YP is discussed. What if the other ASM continued with the 5 boys and HE was injured, or became ill, or whatever, and could not continue on? Where would the boys have been then? You can't protect against everything, but when a crisis has occurred, you need to think about what would happen if something ELSE goes wrong. It sounds like you did that, and arrived at the right answer. The trip was over, and by the way, the boys learned something. A couple of whiny parents can't change that.

[eisely]

Coming back to the original incident for a moment...What was a boy doing "down range" of the rock skipping exercise? Boys are attracted to rocks just like they are attracted to matches, knives, and other fun stuff. I personally view rock skipping on a creek as a fun thing to do, but frown on other rock throwing. It ought to be easy to control the rock skipping, but gratuitous rock throwing along a trail should be prohibited. The best discipline for undesired rock throwing that I have heard of is adding two rocks to the offending boy's pack for every rock he throws.

[Marty_Doyle]

You made the right choice.

This came up at my YP Training. The instructoir essentially said, unless you want to run the risk of ending overnighters early, you should consider aiming for "4-deep" leadership on all outings. Why four deep? Two leaders to transport the injured person (always assumed to be a Scout) and two leaders to stay with the rest of the Scouts.

[evmori]

SMT376Richmond KY,

Excellent! Fantastic!

 

Make copies of the G2SS & give one to each parent in the Troop & sign 'em up as ASM's!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

[AK-Eagle]

Eisely,

 

I share your concerns with the rocking throwing vs. rock skipping. However on my very first camporee as a brand new scout I "caught" a skipped rock when it slipped out of the hand of the thrower a bit early. Got a nice gooseegg bump on my forehead, a few splatters of blood on my uniform, and the respect of my fellow scouts when I tried to shrug it off and keep skipping. Accidents happen.

 

Good call SMT376. Perhaps the only thing I'd try different is to attempt to contact the scouts parents via cell and have them meet you at the trailhead. But that is just my Tuesday afternoon in a nice warm dry office opinion.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

You did the right thing by everyone leaving and explaining why to the parents whether they like it or not and you even left the door open for them to help out..however What about "safe swim defense" there should have been a protected area for swimmers or even waders.

[Bob White]

Was that the plan in case medical attention was needed, to break camp and have everyone leave? What if you could not transport the person?

The only thing that made what you did a good decision was that lack of planning left you little choice.

 

Camping five miles from access to vehicles or communications that could get you professional medical assistance would seem to me to be considered remote or backcountry camping. This type of camping requires more planning for possible emergency assistance.

 

The Sweet-16 of Safety found in the Scoutmaster Handbook says, #10 Planning: Safe activity follows a plan that has been conscientiously developed by the experienced supervisor or other competent source. Good planning minimizes risk and also anticipates contingencies that could require emergency response or a change of plan.

 

I hate to be the wet blanket here but if you are waiting for the accident to take place and then making a plan for what to do about it, then the group is not ready for this type of camping.

 

Remote camping is exciting, interesting and adventurous, but only if you prepare properly.

 

Bob White

[silver-shark]

I agree with both Bob and Marty. Our troop rule is always MINIMUM 4 deep leadership on overnight activities. Thus extending the weekend for the rest of the campers, unless of course another accident occurs.

 

With what you had though... You did the right thing.

(This message has been edited by silver-shark)(This message has been edited by silver-shark)

[NWScouter]

When I was Webelos Leader('86), our den went on a father-son overnight. Being the spring in the Great Northwest it poured. So under the bridge at the campground we were skipping stones and sinking twigs. My son had just started to fling a rock when Josh stuck his head in the way. The rock never left my son's hand. Luckily we had a dad for each Webelo and his took him into town. We still had a good time.

SMT did the right thing, the Scouts had good time (one at least till he got hit). YPT and GTSS where complied with.

Bob White what would you have them done differently. More leaders would have only allowed the troop to stay. I dont know where you hike, but come out here. A five mile hike can get 2000 ft elevation gain, and unless you are on top of mountain, cell phones arent worth a darn . Would you have had them brought a satellite phone or a chopper standing by. Even if they called mountain search and rescue they would have told them to hike out. The planning for this outing sounds to me like it was fine. It meets the guidelines (could have had more than two adults but some time you go with what you have) -- trained leaders for the level of activity, level of activity meeting the scouts skill level and first aid training and equipment.

I look back at my troop hikes in the Cascades, I remember when I lost my footing and slid a few yards down a slope with my backpack on. The scouts and the leaders gathered on the trail looking down at me as sat getting my wits back . I was touched by their concern, Latter I realized they were trying to figure out if they were going to leave me there or carry me out 15 miles. They had to do neither, I scrambled back up and continued on. This was a group of Scouts and Scouters who between them had 100+ 50 milers, most of the peaks in the Cascades and mountains search and rescue training. Yes there were those with us who were on their first 50 miler and we met the wilderness back country limit of 12 in our party.

Our plan with an injured hiker is so simple, if you can hike him out -- hike him, if you need aid send your fastest pair of hikers out with directions for a rescue (adult with car keys if possible).

Any of that party that would have been on the planning with SMT and went on the hike would have done the same thing.

 

Job well done -- SMT

I'd go hiking with you anytime.

[SMT376Richmond KY]

Thanks for the votes of confidence. Thought I was doing the right thing. Just to offer some clarification. The skipping was taking place in an ajoining pool down stream from the wadders the injured scout walked from one pool to the next and both scouts faild to see him. I didn't see him walking as we treating a minor foot scrape of another scout that dispite being instructed not to go barefoot in the creek decided to do so as not to get his Nike's wet.

 

We had planned for the event even informed EMS which the fire Dept is our CO where we would be

they had a 2-3 min ETA once we called for anything that warrented emergency evacuation. Since this incident didn't warrant this type of evac we didn't call them (benifit of being an ED nurse and trained to recognize what constitutes an emergency). Parents picked us up at the trail head where we had orginally planned to come out. However, since we had to hike up the ravine to the top of the ridge to receive a cell signal it resulted in our coming our further up the road than orginally planned about 2 mi and this was difficult to ascertain where we would come out on the map since the farmers drive was not on the topo map we have from USGS. I culdn't hike to the top of the ridge and back and leave the ASM alone with the 6 boys. Yes, in hind sight having 4 leaders would have been great but as we all know wanting and having are two different things. Spoke with our DE yesterday and he was happy with the turn of events said he was going to use it as an example at roundtable when we start back in August. Hopefully we will get more of the parents to complete forms and training so we will have more help on next outing.

 

Still proud of the boys for how well they did and they showed it Monday at the meeting. They seemed more confident in our debriefing as we do after every outing. Not as many negatives this time out. Didn't even complain about the heat. They met a challenge and used skills unbeknownst to them that they actually learned and din't know it, and that's what the program is all about.

 

[evmori]

What Bob White is talking about is covered in Risk Zone training.

 

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dan]

Ah boys and rocks. I have found that when a boy finds a rock, he knows that the rock does not belong there, it belongs over t h e r e! So he makes this happen!