Charter Organization and Unit relationship

[MNBob]

I'm not positive that this thread belongs under the Council Relations topic but no other topic jumped out at me either.

 

First an introduction. Our Pack (http://www.pack589.org) has been in existence since 1972. We had been chartered by a home owners association but ever since my son joined as a Tiger (and in the recent past just before that from what I learned) we never truly had an Org Rep and we did not have any relationship with the Charter Org except on paper. Last March we changed charter orgs to the local Lions Club. We now have a Charter Org Rep but we still don't have a strong relationship. We have been "independent" for so long that we're used to funding ourselves and finding our own meeting location. When we were looking for a new partner we had hoped to find an organization that would be able to provide us with meeting space but that did not work out. But at least we finally have a charter org that can give us some storage space.

 

Introduction over, my question is whether or not our experience is typical or atypical? Are charter orgs usually involved with their units. Is the chartered organization rep engaged with the unit? Do reps usually come to committee meetings or other unit events?

[AlFansome]

 

What you're experiencing is quite typical, unfortunately. Clearly, there are very involved COs and CORs, but very often, it's an on-paper-only type of deal where you need to seek out the COR to get a signature on a recharter or adult apps. Tonight, we have our Council's annual business meeting and I expect about 4 or 5 CORs will actually show up in addition to the usual cast of characters (the Council Board members and staff and some very involved Scouters).

 

I'm a chartered rep for 5 units (3 packs and 2 troops). Since I'm also a scouter at the unit and district level, I am probably more invovled in scouting than 90+% of the other CORs in my area. Given that, I'm probably also more involved as well. Obviously, with 5 units, there aren't enough evenings in the week to do all that's possible, but I attempt to sit in on Committee Meetings when I can, attend Blue and Gold dinners and Courts of Honor, and in general oversee things via e-mail when there are top-level leader changes in the units. Luckily, most of the units are doing just fine, although I have one new unit and one old unit that need some work.

 

The one thing that the Board of my Kiwanis Club (the CO) does want me to do is watch out for liability issues, so I make sure to pass along any new G2SS changes to my units (like helmets being required for all snow sport activities, for instance) and I've also mandated Tour Permits and am attempting to improve the training cultures of the units.

 

Other than that, I do not attempt to involve myself in day-to-day operations unless I see something running off the tracks in a really big way.

 

On the other side of the coin, you as a unit leader should try to engage your CO whenever possible if you wish to improve relations. An old thread with some tips can be found at http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=257086

 

 

[Axeman]

I was waiting for someone else to address this. My views on the subject (under a different username) resulted in a fair bit of trouble for me in my district and council. Once bitten, twice shy.

 

...my question is whether or not our experience is typical or atypical? Your experience is typical.

 

Are charter orgs usually involved with their units(?) No.

 

Is the chartered organization rep engaged with the unit? No.

 

Do reps usually come to committee meetings or other unit events? No.

 

Why? Because there is no expectation of performance from the CO & CR.

 

YMMV

 

Axeman

CR/UC

[T2Eagle]

I cant comment on whats typical. Our CO is our Catholic Church, we have a Pack, a Troop, and are starting a Venture Crew. We get good support in terms of meeting space and support for our fundraising efforts. The pastor is our CR, and other than Scout Sunday and maybe our semi-annual COH were left on our own; he doesnt play any role at all in our units or in the District or Council. We dont really look for or ask any more of him, and to be fair were a big parish with just one priest and were one of a couple dozen ministries including a parish school. Given the paucity of Catholic priests these days I would guess that unless a pastor has an affinity for scouting hell be stretched too thin to be more involved.

[OldGreyEagle]

This thread is very depressing and I am the 4th post. What is being described is all too common. A totally disinterested and absent Chartering Organization which doesnt understand their role. In reality, the CO's have all the power in the BSA. They are the ones who shape policy from a COuncil to National level. If you want to have more control of your Council's direction, the best and fastest way to do that is organize the CO's. Which of course is the issue. They don't organize easily, but that is where the power lies, its not with us the volunteers, its with the CO's.

 

If we want change, we have to engage the CO's

[Stosh]

Our CO was very active with our Crew until some of the adults in the crew didn't like the directives of the CO and took everything and went and found a new CO with the blessing of the Council.

 

It works both ways.

 

Stosh

[MNBob]

On the other side of the coin, you as a unit leader should try to engage your CO whenever possible if you wish to improve relations. An old thread with some tips can be found at http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=257086

 

Thanks for the tips. I recently have made an effort by inviting our COR to our first 2010/2011 planning meeting as well as our Blue & Gold which is March 7. Haven't heard a response yet but the invite was recent so we'll see.

[Beavah]

Yah, fairly typical, MNBob, but by no means universal.

 

Generally speakin', a scout troop is a sideshow for a CO. If they're a church, they're probably runnin' more than a dozen different ministries, and they naturally tend to focus on their big ones that involve money and paid staff. If they're a VFW or a PTO, their primary energies are directed elsewhere, unless yeh get a fellow (or lady) or two who really have an affinity for doin' youth stuff and make that their place in da Organization. All that is natural, eh? Scoutin' units tend to run on their own steam, so they don't require attention and therefore don't get any. And because they're runnin' on their own steam, they don't have the time or energy to maintain good contact with da CO, since they're busy doin' scouting.

 

So yeh have to work at it, eh? DEs should take their CO visits seriously, but most don't. A lot of SEs don't really want to see the COs actively involved, eh?

 

I think yeh try to build in a few things that make each side pay attention.

 

1. The CO should have some skin in the game. There should be a regular budget item in the COs budget for the unit. Whether they pay da registration fees for the unit and all adults, or support camperships, or buy equipment every year... something.

 

2. The unit should report formally to da CO annually at recharter time, in person and in writin'. List of accomplishments, list of challenges, numbers of members and events, and a review of the unit books. I think yeh should also have a real discussion about whether da CO wants to recharter, but then I'm a heathen. I think it should be a conscious, deliberate decision on a charter and on unit leadership every year.

 

3. The unit should do something by way of service to da CO 3-4 times per year, in uniform. Just to be "present", eh? To remind da folks in the CO that we're theirs.

 

4. Da IH and COR should be invited to sit on Eagle BORs for the unit. And maybe a couple of others, eh? Key people from the CO should always be invited to COHs, B&Gs, etc.

 

5. Da CO should invite the unit scouters to volunteer recognition events, and periodically honor 'em for their service.

 

6. In a CO that has a paid staff, the COR should be a paid staff member, not somebody pulled out of da unit. Paid staff folks have "access" to the CO in ways that an outside volunteer just doesn't, eh? Yeh should get da COR position written into someone's job description.

 

7. Wherever possible, da unit leader should be a member of the CO. Just makes for a much more natural "connection", eh?

 

Mostly, I think the failure to get da COs more actively involved falls on the failures of the Commissioner Corps in general, and on da BSA professional staff. When yeh see disengaged COs, you can bet on weaknesses in both of those groups.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[BrentAllen]

I guess we really are different. Our COR comes by nearly every meeting, and even went caving with us last month. She attends all Troop committee meetings. She offered to pick up some cookie cakes to bring to tonight's meeting, to celebrate the 100th anniversary.

 

The church bought us a new Troop flag when we restarted the Troop, paid several hundred dollars to get the old equipment trailer rolling again, and then gave us $2,000 towards the new equipment trailer we bought last summer. The Sr. Pastor did a great job of recognizing us during Scout Sunday. They are now working with us on a plan to build a nice big Scout Hut. I don't think I could ask for much more.

[Oak Tree]

If you search through some of the old threads, you can find some longer posts on this topic.

 

There appears to be a continuum of CO involvement, and this is probably true regardless of what group is your CO. But it seems more typical for COs to be uninvolved when they are groups like the Lions, Elks, etc, especially when they don't have meeting space to provide.

 

Churches seem to tend a bit more toward a middle ground - they often have a little more involvement - although some provide a great deal (and some, primaily LDS, are completely intertwined), and some provide nothing more than meeting space, I'd say that most fall in between those extremes. Our church has been quite responsive, although we don't see the COR in particular all that much. We've had Eagle projects for the church, we've had service projects, they work with us on Scout Sunday, they provide us meeting space and closet space.

[OldGreyEagle]

here is a thought, and its on topic. Each Council has an Annual Meeting where the budget is approved and other resolutions. What percentage of COR's show up in your Council?

 

Do you know, or do you know someoen who would know? These are the people (CORs) with the most power in the Council, what perentage shows up at the most impoertant meeting of the year?

[AlFansome]

 

OGE-

We had our council's Annual Meeting last night. Our Council President makes a point of recognizing the CORs in attendance near the top of the agenda and has us all stand up. Out of 540 units in our council, there were 8 or so CORs present. That's more than last year, btw.

 

Our typical council Annual Meeting consists of:

- each of the 10+ Council VPs prsenting 2 or 3 slides on the past year's accomplishments and next year's goals

- the Treasurer showing us the actuals from the previous year plus the budget for the coming year

- the incoming and outgoing presidents plus the SE saying the typical things you'd expect them to say

- the announcement of the Board for the coming year

- typical, legalese resolutions about conflict of interest, name of the corporation, etc...

 

There is no discussion, debate, or any real input from the floor. Just lots of head nodding. Any votes are the all-in-one-breath "motion-second-all-in-favor-AYE-opposed-(silence)-so-moved" type of thing.

 

Is this typical in your Council?

 

Now, mind you, our Council is a well run, Quality Council with no financial issues or general turmoil, so maybe a rubber stamp, feel good annual meeting is fine as most of the work is done in committee and by the staff.

 

[jhankins]

We did something new this year. We had a COR training before the council annual business meeting. For the first time, we had 24 CORs show up for training. I wish you all could have seen the "Deer in the headlights" look on their faces as we taught them what their jobs were.

 

What really helped get their attention was the fact that indeed, yes, they own their units, and they can ask their units for help in their mission as the CO. Every COR in the room had no idea about this.

 

We're planning on doing this COR training more often in that kind of scenario. The more information a COR has, the better the chance they're going to want to help at the unit level.

[skifoot]

Sorry for replying so late. As a COR (since Dec) I have seen the continium that has been stated. Maybe there are those that are told that the duties ONLY require an occasional signature and maybe some of the CO's are also to blame. It would be wonderful if I could say our CO (United Methodist Church) was heavily involved but that would not be truthful. Maybe part of the problem (like our CO is I think) is also that the leadership of the troop (originally members of the church) put in lots of hours, their sons aged out and the recruitment came from other leaders and the tie between the CO and the Troop leadership drifted apart. It looks to me like both groups are partially to blame if neither work at their marriage. I am currently trying to strengthen that relationship BOTH WAYS!