District Chairman Removal

[89camper]

The Council President owes nobody an explanation. The District Chair serves at the pleasure of the Council President. Period. Let's keep in mind that the District Executive or the Scout Executive did not remove this Chair. The Council President, who is a volunteer, did. So why all the discussion about the Pros?

[Abel Magwitch]

On the contrary 89camper, the council president does not appoint the district chair; the district chair is nominated and elected.

 

I respectfully have to disagree with you. Those who elected the district chair, especially the chartered reps of the district who are voting members of both district and council do in fact deserve an explanation on why the district chair they elected was removed.

[89camper]

I encourage you to check your council by-laws carefully. District elections are allowed to exist at the pleasure of the Council President. No one is eligible for election to the District Committee without approval of the Council President. Yes, Districts have elections, but the Council President has the power to remove or disallow their inclusion on the ballot at any moment for any reason...

[Eagle92]

89,

the reason why professionals were brought up is b/c they do have a heavy influence on who serves on the DC. I'll be honest and admit can't cite chapter and verse on the bylaws, but I remember being told by the SE to remove folks b/c they were "anti-council."

 

 

[Abel Magwitch]

Ah yes, the hidden bylaws. They are supposedly locked away somewhere in the SE's office. The hidden adgenda that is normally kept from the volunteer (at least in my council).

 

The bylaws aren't just laying around for everyone to see. Most volunteers in my council don't even know they exist.

 

So in other words, the bylaws supercede any training, any BSA policies and procedures written in various BSA publications. Do I understand this correctly?

 

Should I simply disregard my copy of The District Committee election procedures, #33157?

 

Is that what you are implying 89camper? That the bylaws can supercede BSA policies and procedures at the convenience of the council?

[Eagle92]

AM,

Actually all policies are suppose to coincide with the Bylaws,and I believe workgin tot hat effect is in every policy manual.

 

Wish I know now what I had back then, but I had a copy of those and gave them away.

[89camper]

Abel -

 

Bylaws are hardly secret documents. In most states they have to be filed with the Secretary of State and are a public document. I'm not going to say that most councils distribute them weekly, but they are out there if you have an interest. And yes, By-laws do supercede EVERYTHING except the Articles of Incorporation. They are the rules that govern the corporation. Other documents my talk about best methods or how things operate day to day, but the by-laws are the governing document.

[Eagle92]

Well I found a copy of the July 2007 version fo teh BSA's "Charters and Bylaws" here

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8919588/Charter-and-Bylaws-of-the-Boy-Scouts-of-America

 

what's intersting is that at that link the words Scouts, Bylaws, and America are redacted except on the cover.

[Abel Magwitch]

Well 89camper, I can tell you that you aren't part of my council. And I can tell you that Scouting is not the same in every council. Hopefully, you belong to a thriving council where the professional leadership is doing the right things for the right reasons. I shall also assume that you are a professional.

 

I enjoy learning from the professionals both current and former. I have gained some real useful insights into the inner workings of the program that I never knew existed. And I have been around the block a few times in Scouting. In my council, we go through DE's like the leaves falling in Autumn. And it's interesting that those I talk to after they have left Scouting pretty much have the same things to say - I didn't like what I was told to do by the upper management. They didn't like how they were told to manipulate the volunteers. They did not like having to perform unethical tasks in order to obtain their membership criticals. Quite frankly, with as many former professionals saying the same things, I do believe that some councils are really out of touch with the timeless values they say they stand for.

 

When you state that the bylaws supersede everything, then quite frankly, they should be added to every BSA publication and BSA training. But they are not. And in my council, very few know they exist at all. So yes, quite frankly in my council, they are kept away from the volunteers; they are secret.

 

Apparently the bylaws allow the professionals in my council to dictate to the council advancement committee by telling them that 15 year olds are allowed to "counsel" merit badges at summer camp. The bylaws allow the director of field service to not approve a district nominating committee even though it's the council president's job to approve or disapprove the district nominating committee. I could go on with how many policies and procedures have been superseded by our council professional staff, but I will spare the forum community.

 

And my final advice to the author of this thread Narraticong, is to ask your former DC what happened. Go right to the source and find out what went on. And if you find that things stink, gather up your COR's of the district and let them in on it. Find out if what was suggested as the reason for dismissal was true. Find out what the conflicts were about. Find out what if anything was done wrong by the DC. Above all get involved and get your district involved. Your COR's do have a voice that I found the professionals do not like to hear.

 

Abel, COR

 

[89camper]

I will agree, we have had our share of unethical professionals in this movement. Unfortunately it is a problem in almost every profession. My experience however is that the vast majority of professionals are in the movement for the right reasons. They deeply care about the program and often are products of it. And even good, deeply committed people make mistakes in judgement from time to time.

 

I too have met professionals that have left because they didn't care for what they were asked to do. Most not because they thought it was unethical, but because they really didn't understand that they were signing up to raise money, recruit volunteers or recruit membership. They wanted to work with kids, they wanted to run camps. Unfortunately that is a very small part of what a professional does day to day.

 

For every professional that I have met that left because of management, I have met another that has left because of volunteers. I have seen Districts that take great joy in "chewing up and spitting out" the new District Executive. There are volunteers that approach professionals with a true chip on the shoulder. I have heard dedicated professionals dressed down by volunteers in such ways as "Well, I don't get paid to do this". So What? You get paid to do something, I hope. That is a way to deminish the role of the professional and make them feel less than you. Often a volunteer will take a bad experience with one professional and project it on the entire profession. How would you like to be treated and judged based on the performance of the worst among your profession.

 

Yes there is great turn over in the professional ranks at the entry level (about 30% in the first year, I think). What is the turn over at your company in the first year? Identifing and hiring effective professionals, in not an easy job. There have been improvements made in the last few years, but the combination of crappy hours, high expectations and volunteer relations is not for everybody, even the ones who think its for them.

 

One last question: Have you asked for your council's by-laws? Have you asked the Secretary of State for a copy? They can be had, but again, its rarely a document that gets passed around, any more than your company's by laws are passed around.

[Eagle92]

89 is right about some volunteers enjoying 'chewing up and spitting out" DEs. Heck one I know a DE who was actually threatened at a RT, only to state that he hadn't been beaten up in a while and he would be willing to give anyone a chance to after the meeting. just not in those words. Gotta love retired Marines, especially the insane recon ones "only someone crazy would jump out of a perfectly good aitrplane").

[Abel Magwitch]

89camper, I agree that mistakes in judgment do happen from time to time. But this is not the case in my council.

 

It is apparent that you must be part of a functional council.

 

As for ANYONE chewing out another and spitting them out - that's totally unacceptable behavior for both volunteer and professional alike. Those kinds of people do not belong in Scouting at all. But you do seem to be painting volunteers with a broad brush. I have experienced some disrespectful young professionals giving hell to Scoutmasters at summer camp. Look up my summer camp woes thread sometime.

 

Both volunteers and professionals in Scouting are supposed to serve. But the volunteer has a special place in this volunteer movement. Volunteers do not work for pay, but serve unselfishly because they want to. Their rewards come when the seeds they plant in the Scouts begin to sprout. It is the lowly Den Leader and Scoutmaster who work in the trenches directly with the boys. That is the heart of the program without them; there would be no need for professionals.

 

I have observed plenty of young professionals right out of college who never experienced Scouting until the day they were hired. I find many times it is the professionals inexperienced with Scouting outside of their professional training that have the most problems with the volunteers, especially the older ones.

 

Are you an Eagle Scout by chance? Assuming that you were a Scout, did you enjoy your Scouting experience when you were a youth? And which adults most influenced you the most? Your Scoutmaster or your DE?

 

Since you asked, the turnover rate in my company is pretty low. But then again, I work for my city in its safety forces. We are a paramilitary group. We all know are place in the chain of command and generally, we truly get along with each other.

 

I will be asking for the bylaws of my council. But council has been reluctant to give any information out. I asked for a list of the COR's in my district. The district commissioner informed me that he was told not to give them to me by the DE and director of field service. Funny how these things work sometimes.

 

I know my situation in my council well. And I really don't think you are part of my council. Six years ago when our council got a new SE, he fired the entire professional staff of DE's from the last administration and brought over young DE's from his old council. I was truly shocked to find that these professionals were simply out of a job all of a sudden. I hope you don't experience a situation like that someday.

 

I hope you the best in your career in Scouting and hope you are spared having to work in a council that would challenge your own integrity and ethical principles. It is apparent that there are many former professionals out there; good people who left the professional ranks of the BSA because they realized that they could not bring themselves to be unethical. I do commend them, especially those who were former Scouts and had the courage to take a stand by not participating in corrupt business practices. From what I have read of Eagle92 and BadenP, they made those tough decisions to leave rather than do the bidding of a less than ethical SE. It is unfortunate that the temptation of greed often dictates to those in power.

 

Be well 89camper

 

Abel

 

[BadenP]

The problem is 89 that by the time a scouting pro makes SE the majority of them have lost that helper mode and reverted into a self serving mode with the goal to get promoted to National. Truefully many of them just wanna get away from the problems of running a council and from volunteers. Sad but true.

[MomToEli]

After reading this thread I am very grateful to be in the Council I am in. Seriously. That said, there is a whole lot of bad blood between our District and our Council. Best as I can tell it comes about because neither side really feels like the other side bothers to hear *their* side. It rather reminds me of how people in "the office" and IT don't seem to talk the same language. If you are lucky you have a "bilingual speaker" at the help desk! Anyway, it takes a long time and some serious moderating to get over some of the humps, but we ARE making progress! Being the one who tends to be "bilingual", I truly believe that BOTH sides have one very major thing in common - they love the boys and want to do their best to have a positive impact on their lives and futures.

[jhankins]

All councils are chartered and allowed to exist by the national council. All councils have to follow the by-laws given at the national level. Those bylaws state that all districts are allowed to vote for a District Chairman, and those chairman are approved by the council board.

 

Call national supply and ask for a copy. Every District and every charter org rep should have a copy in hand.