If you were the National Commissioner...........

[Eagle92]

Avid,

Must respectfully disagree that a UC can remove a unit leader. Only the CO can remove a leader, except when the BSA revokes a memebership. And then the SE initiates that process.

 

Now a UC may be useful in the process when a unit's committee or BSA leadership want to remove a leader from a POR. Usually in discussing with the COR and/or IH how the BSA program works, why the leader needs to be removed, etc.

 

If it was as easy as you said, then there would be no challenging units.

[BadenP]

rk, I am glad you got such a positive response from Tico and while he may be a great guy what he is gunning for while admirable is really unrealistic and will be near impossible to implement given the present state of BSA commissioner corps in the country.

 

Avid, I really think you have misread your handbook to come with the idea that a commissioner can remove anyone, only the IH has that authority as stated in all BSA publications. The IH can ask the commissioner for advice, if he desires, but in NO WAY does a commissioner have the authority to remove a volunteer under any circumstances. I would suggest you talk to your DC or Council Commish for clarification

[AvidSM]

Eagle92 - I never said that a UC can remove a unit leader - his authority is indirect. Twice I posted that, "the commissioners role it to help the head of the chartered organization or the unit committee to make the change."

 

BadenP - I have been quoting the handbook verbatum. Your disagreement is with the BSA, not me. I am referring to the Commissioner Fieldbook for Unit Service, Chapter 9 - How to Remove a Volunteer. Please explain to me why this chapter exists, if not to instruct a Unit Commissioner on how to AFFECT the removal of a volunteer.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Avid,

Sorry about the last post, didn't see your post when I commented. that's what happens when you start to type, get interupted by work,a nd come back to finish. At least the interuption was good: cake, meatballs, and punch from a retirement party.

 

No as to why that section of the book is in there, a few comments. #1 I don't have the book in front of me as I donated most of that stuff to those who really needed it and #2 it's been a while sicne I was a UC, so bear with me.

 

If memory serves, that section is to understand our role in helping a unit remove a leader. We don't start the process, the unit does, and our job is to help them get through it as it is VERY messy and VERY painful. Been there, done that, and hated it even if it was needed.

[emb021]

"I have been quoting the handbook verbatum. Your disagreement is with the BSA, not me. I am referring to the Commissioner Fieldbook for Unit Service, Chapter 9 - How to Remove a Volunteer. Please explain to me why this chapter exists, if not to instruct a Unit Commissioner on how to AFFECT the removal of a volunteer. "

 

taking a little different tack from Eagle92, my impression of this section was more about the removal of a district/council volunteer, NOT a unit-level volunteer.

 

But its been awhile since I've read that section, so could be wrong.

 

[Oak Tree]

AvidSM,

 

I find this quote to be curious: The BSA has a right to choose its leaders.

 

Certainly the BSA has the right to choose its own district, council, and national leaders. And the BSA can choose who should not have membership. But all the other BSA literature emphasizes that the CO chooses the leaders, not the BSA.

 

There's a whole supplemental training unit on the national site on how to select quality unit leaders. Quoting from that training:

 

Target AudienceChartered organization representatives

Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters

Varsity team Coaches and assistant Coaches

Troop or team committee chairs

Troop or team committee members

 

Nowhere does it list unit commissioners or any other representative of the council. The idea that "the BSA has a right to choose its leaders", when applied to unit leaders, just does not jibe with any of my experience or anything I've seen anywhere else from the BSA.

 

I will grant you that the BSA has the right to veto people's membership.

 

How does the book say the unit commissioner should convince the IH to remove the terrible leader?

[Oak Tree]

Also, there's this quote:

 

Chartered Organization Responsibilities

By receiving a charter from the Boy Scouts of America, the chartered organization agrees to (List the following on a flip chart.)Conduct Scouting in accordance with its own policies and guidelines as well as those of the BSA.

Include Scouting as part of its overall program for youth and families.

Appoint a chartered organization representative who is a member of the organization and will represent it to the Scouting district and council, serving as a voting member of each.

Select a unit committee of parents and members of the organization who will screen and select unit leaders... [emphasis added]Here the BSA is explicitly saying it's the chartered organization's responsibility to select leaders. I don't believe this is compatible with having the BSA choose the leaders.

 

[Edited for formatting](This message has been edited by Oak Tree)

[rkfrance]

Just a little clarification, I don't think things are perfect or even close. I could type for days on the things I'd like to see happen.

 

To that point, I see things from a much different perspective than our Council Commissioner. His view of Scouting, although not completely removed, is more about reports and spread sheets than what's happening in the den or patrol meetings this week.

 

I still directly serve at the unit and district level. I see it up close every week.

 

It's all about perspective. The original post was "If you were the National Commissioner..." I tried to point out that our current NC doesn't just sit in his office looking at reports and spread sheets. He's out frequently "Selling" Scouting and getting feedback, which as I pointed toward, he is responding to.

 

Could things be better? ABSOLUTELY!! Take that same perspective and look at your church, or school system, or city government. Who's responding to your requests in those groups?

 

Is what he's doing a pipe dream or forward thinking? It's all perspective. Do we have the commissioner staff in place? I certainly don't. Do we wait to have the staff in place before we move forward on anything? Then there's nothing left of the organization at that point. He's leading and setting the example. It's up to the current commissioner core to get moving along that path. Is there a bunch of dead weight among us? ABSOLUTELY!! Who's better to fix that, the NC or us? I think that falls in our laps.

 

Rob France

District Commissioner

TFD, HOOC, BSA