A hazing incident at camp (long)

[LauraT7]

We had a hazing incident at camp this summer - unfortunately i did not handle it as well as I should.

 

Sorry this is so long - but i gotta get some of this off my chest - and this forum has been so helpful to me in the past...

 

We have a very young, very bright, but very annoying first year scout who has taken some 'boys will be boys' teasing since he has started with the troop in March. to be honest - the kid does his own share of deliberatly goading the boys into teasing him, disregards serious (safety)rules himself,(Like taking out a canoe on his own when told specifically not to, and hiding and lying about it to me & the SM on a campout) while tattling on others for minor indescretions.

 

the teasing continued at camp, and while the other leader and I stopped it whenever we became aware of it - it continued behind our backs - and was supported and encouraged by the SPL and the older boys who SHOULD know better. We were terribly understaffed - 2 female leaders all week, one Dad for the first three nights, and 21 boys. It rained every day all week, and the camp was new to all but 3 of the boys, and huge - with over a mile and a half up and down hills from our campsite to the waterfront and nature program areas. The boys did have their bikes for these distances - but the trails were very rough and the rain was very depressing to them. the Camp program was poorly organized and because many of our boys took the 'cooking' badge - they were actually HUNGRY most of the time (one breakfast for teenage boys consisted of ONE small pancake? 60 boys cooking with ONE large frying pan?) Morale STUNK. (Didn't bother me - I kinda like rain - as long as I'M dry.) And it really only rained a little each day - not ALL day. It really shocked me, however, how poorly the scouts i had so far thought so highly of, reacted to some negatives in our camping situation by being negative and allowing a little rain to affect them so much)

 

Anyway - the poor morale, problems with our site and the weather, and the teasing of this younger boy and his taunting back - culminated in a few of the boys actually physically restraining this boy, duct taping his hands behind his back and taping his mouth shut, and shoving him down behind a tent! The ringleader was one of the oldest boys in the troop - who SHOULD have known better - but who had endured a similar kind of hazing when he joined 4 or more years ago. the SPL, who is usually very responsible - was one of the most negative - and while he didn't participate - this was done with his knowledge and he made no attempt to stop it or help the younger boy - even when I chance upon the scene.

 

I literally walked into it when i came into camp just before dinnertime to get everyone into ther Class A's - and this younger boy stumbled across my path with Duct Tape around his neck and hands, and the other boys there were laughing at him - including the 'venture' patrol boys and the SPL. When they made no attempt to apologize or help me or the boy get the tape out of his hair, tears streaming down his face, or the tape off his hands - i lost it and started screaming at them. i did NOT swear at them - but i did call them something to the effect of being no better than worms and not worthy of their uniforms. i also told them I was ashamed of them and disgusted with them. Screamed it at them - rather - I was livid. When I realized i had totally lost control - i gathered my stuff and went to the nearby parking lot(we were supposed to be loading the bike trailer at the time) a few of the younger boys - the one who was taped up included - went with me to the bike trailer. The other leader walked in at about the end of my tirade, and she started questioning the boys and piecing the story together. when I returned, we decided to take the whole troop to dinner early, and ask the camp directors help in dealing with the incident.

 

After dinner, we had other troop adults arrive to help with driving back home - Fathers - and between the Directors' talk with the boys and the Father's later prescence, the end of camp was pretty subdued. The boys who instigated the hazing of this younger boy were contrite and terrified they were going to be expelled from the troop - and on their best behavior.

 

The monday after we got home from camp - a committee and parents meeting was called to deal with the discipline of the boys. though the parents of the boy were furious - they did NOT want to expel the boys from the troop - nor did their son want to leave the troop. They did want to push the troop to make some changes - some of which will be implemented - some are still up in the air. One good thing out of this is that I think it has shaken the complacency of many of our scouts parents to re think their OWN involvement in scout FOR their sons. Certainly I don't think this would have gone so far if we had more adult supervision at this camp - 2 women and 21 boys may be the minumum requirement - but it is NOT enough for a whole week of camp!

 

I and this other mom ASM have done MANY trips with the boys where we were the only ones who stirred themselves to go - and for one or two nights, we've been fine. but with all the blows to the morale of the boys by this tough week at camp - it just was NOT enough. There were many things, some controlable, many not, that contributed to this normally GOOD group of boys losing morale so thouroughly that they lost civility.

 

Right now - the whole troop is walking on eggshells. I feel that i let the boys down by not controlling this situation - yet i don't really see how I could have stopped it - it was like an avalanche. I also feel that my troop - the adults - no longer trust me. Like THEY feel I should have stopped it. Yet I defy anyONE person, male or female, to control 21 wet, demoralized boys after a week of torment by weather, wet clothes, shoes and tents, no proper shelter, really bad food, large distances, etc. There is a point at which - even as boys - they have to take some responsibility for their own attitudes. And ATTITUDE is what did everyone in.

 

Actually - I did not think the rain was all that bad - the weather was hot during the day - cool enough to sleep comfortably at night - the coolness meant no mosquitoes - no sunburns, either. Unlike the other 500 people at camp, we had the ability to bring our bikes - which cut down enormously on the long distances between various program areas. We had planned ahead - program wise - better than we EVER had in the 3 years I've gone to camp with the troop. Every boy was prepared with the pre-requisite work he needed for merit badges, materials, documentaion of work done outside camp, etc. I stayed very positive and encouraging to the boys, accompanying them to various program areas whenever they slumped into apathy over the rain.

they didn't want to take their swim tests, they didn't want to participate in the new camper program, they didn't want to try for any troop awards or even personal awards. they dropped out of badge classes right and left - because of the rain - they said. The other leader stuck with the boys in cooking class - seeing that difficult badge through with them - but outside of that class, she worked with her son - who is a special needs kid. I got to spend part of ONE afternoon with my son. I stayed "UP", until thursday night - when the cough I had started camp with sunday, came back full force and i went to bed early. But by Friday - their attitudes had worn me down, - and i just wanted to go home, too.

 

 

 

Where do I go from here? how do i regain the troops trust in me? how do I regain the confidence i USED to have with these boys? they mean so much to me!

 

[matuawarrior]

Hazing of any kind is serious. It looks like the committee met and agreed on a plan of action to implement changes. That's good. So what happened to the boys involved with the incident? Were they talked too about what happened? If they weren't expelled, what form of counseling did they receive?

 

The Scoutmaster needs to do a reflection with the whole troop on Hazing and why it's not tolerated in the BSA.

 

Laura, I've been in your shoes before for something quite similar.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. So I would suggest that you talk to all the boys involved and explain why you acted the way you did, Apologize for it and move on. Have everyone start on a clean slate after the committee implements its new policy.

 

It's gonna take alot of time, love, and effort on both sides to get back to where things were before this happened.

 

Like I said, I know what your going through. Yes, the "Matua" lost control and I was more than livid. Yes, it also happened at camp. I regret that it happened four years ago. The Charter Rep was at that time spending the weekdays with the troop/crew and talked to the Scouts and Venturers about what happened. They understood what they did was wrong and that the committee will have to be called to deal with what happened. After she had talked to them, She came and talked to me about what I did. I was wrong for losing it and there is no excuse because were supposed to know better. Let me tell you that it took a lot of humbling to apologize to 25 Scouts/Venturers telling them that I too was wrong for losing it, but I told them exactly how I felt. I told them that they had let me down for believing that they were better than the other troops at camp. I was disappointed in each of them for doing what they did. Too make a long story short, most of them apologized to me that night. Two days later, the troop/crew won the "Best Troop Award". It was a couple of weeks later that the last scouts finally came up to me to talk things out. Now four years later, it's one of the popular campfire stories the Jr. Leaders recite at our monthly retreats. "Remember when Mr.'M' lost it . . .".

 

 

Laura, It's gonna take time to get back to normal. When you show them that you still care after they've done something so careless. They'll reciprocate. The other adult leaders too will come around. Be honest with the young men and let them know how you feel. Maybe in four years they'll be telling the new scouts "Remember when Ms. 'L' lost it . . .". Do what I do and just smile.

 

 

Been there . . .

 

Matua

 

[Bob White]

Excellent advice Matua.

Bob W.

[evmori]

Laura,

Wow! What a week. Sorry to hear about it.

 

I think the problem might have been stopped before it happened. In my Troop, if a Scout lies while we are on a camping trip, he goes home. No questions. Also, we have what we call a "Cus Cup" we use at summer camp. Everytime anyone in the site uses a swear word they must pay a quarter. There are two words that will get them sent home. Also, if anyone insults anyone else while in the site, they pay a quarter. And this year, if you asked someone one for something or to do something & didn't say please or thank you it cost you a quarter. Since we instituted the "Cus Cup", all the above behavior has diminished.

 

I hope you and your Troop will get back to normal soon.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutmom]

I think Matus gave the best advice. Acknowledge that you lost your temper, apologize and move on from there. It will take time, but the boys and the parents will come around.

 

Don't beat yourself up over this. It happened, hopefully everyone there (and maybe some of the adults who weren't there) learned a lesson from it, and now your troop can make some positive adjustments and move on with a better program and attitude.

 

Good Luck!

[dsteele]

Matua gives good advice, Laura. I think you've taken the right steps. I really can't blame you for losing it, but you can't take it back now. Folks will move on in time.

 

DS

[LauraT7]

Thanks Matua - and everyone -

 

Some of these steps - including the majority of apologies, came before we even left camp. After final (All camp)campfire friday - back at the unit, the older boys and the SPL came up on their own with written notes of apology to me and to the other leaders and to the boy who was hazed. At the troop campfire that night,and at the committee meeting the following monday, I apologized to all the boys and parents for 'losing it' knowing that no matter how shocked or dissapointed I was, I should not have lost control of my temper that way.

 

 

I do think that my relationship - at least with the older boys - is going to be OK. I went this morning to see some of them off to their second camp of the summer - and they were laughing and joking with me as usual. I've talked to many of them since camp, and open talk, forgiveness and apologies are going a long way toward mending the rift. The new boys who don't know me so well, may not have yet learned that I don't hold grudges and what's past is past - they may take a little more time. Plus, the yonger ones aren't 'in the neighborhood' and in and out of my house with my son,like some of the others are.

 

I'm not sure the adults will be so forgivng - they weren't there - and frankly - alot of the adults, especially the "old scout" fathers - didn't think this 'hazing' was all that serious - especially in light of the fact that the boy who was hazed has been a behavior problem himself, and this kind of behavior was commonly accepted (?!) years ago - even in THIS troop.

 

AS for the boy who was hazed - and his lying to us - that was on a campout prior to going to summer camp - in fact it was his third campout with us - and each time we have had some rule-following / discipline problems with him. Usually it was a matter of pushing the limits just a little too far - going off a marked trail, not taking a buddy when leaving camp, playing with the fire - stuff alot of new scouts push until they figure out the system. But in this case - on that campout in June when he lied - were dealing with water safety. I can be lenient and 'bend the rules' - like I don't think they need a buddy to go to the latrine when it's visible from the campsite - and some teasing is fun and expected - waterfights, a rubber bug on a sandwich, and the fake 'hand' that always seems to go along on campouts.... but i draw the line at personal insults, bad language and anything that physically hurts people or property.

 

But on safety issues I am by-the-book or even stricter - and this boy took out a canoe on his own when he was expressly told NOT to; he didn't even ask for or accept a Buddy when someone offered. For some reason he wanted to boat alone, he harped on this the whole weekend - that he should be allowed to take a boat out by himself and would NOT accept the rules. (picture a 70 lb 11 yr old out on a lake in one of those old tall, upright paddleboats meant for two,in a wind, and they didn't steer well anyway) he just would not accept the physical fact that even an adult could not steer a one sided paddleboat! ALL the boys are well aware that the buddy system is basic sense - even the best boater/swimmer can roll a canoe and get beaned by a paddle - it has nothing to do with skill or trust or knowledge. So when he snuck a canoe out alone, came back in before the adults could catch him doing it, and then lied when confronted, the adults beached him for the remainder of the weekend. As we promised we would when we set the rules for everyone.

 

on a side note - later, at camp -he DID pass his BSA test, he IS a strong swimmer and he got his swimming badge. Doesn't matter - at the time, he was an unknown risk - so he was classified as a beginner. Even now - ESPECIALLY now,knowing his skill level & knowing his disregard for safety rules, he would be on my special watch list. no one goes boating without a buddy and a buddy boat.

 

 

 

[sst3rd]

Laura,

 

As always, lots of great advice offered. I have a few observations please. I just got back from my 16th year at a summer camp program as an adult leader. For the first time, a Scout went home. We were 5 hours away from home, and we used all of our Troop and Camp resources, but the boy said he was sick and had made up his mind. Tuesday afternoon, his father showed up, and home he went. We had great weather all week, but I have noticed in the past few years, that even on weekend trips, if it's bad weather (other than perfection), these Scouts get "down" real easy. And low morale is contagious. Sounds like you did it all right. I've occasionally lost it when a safety issue came up (oh the stories I could tell) that was in violation, but I'm human too.

I think you're more concerned how the parents are taking this. Since I don't know what changes the Committee made, I can't go there, but the parents need to be more understanding of the responsibilities of adult Scout leaders. Why aren't these parents supporting you on these trips by being more directly involved? Registered, trained, and active, these parents should be, before thay dare come down on you and the current active adult leaders.

Forgive yourself, move on, and use this incident as a recruiting tool for more adult leaders. You are right, the minimum required is not enough. You deserve not to be stressed out like this. You'll burn out quickly.

 

sst3rd

[mk9750]

Laura,

 

First, this is an answer from me, so it is long, as usual. Sorry to hear about your week. What should be a great time obviously turned quite sour.

 

At least in our Troop, we have one guy every year who is like your young man who was hazed. The intensity varies from year to year, but every year it seems there is one boy who just can't help but be the kind of kid all the boys want to treat poorly. They usually bring it on themselves, as an attention getting mechanism, I think. But we have use these situations to our advantage.

 

Whenever new boys join the Troop, the timing is such that we have just recently elected new leaders. Each new leader, as soon as he is confronted with the new boy's behavior, and the reaction of other Scouts (the beginning of hazing), is counseled very specifically about how to handle this. Our method for handling these situations is to have the SPL and the Troop Guide act has this new boy's best friends. They end up defending him, but even more so, they become his assisant in a tit - for - tat prank battle. We've been fortunate that the two older Scouts who help the new guy know how to keep from crossing the line. But as time goes on, this method has caused a boy who was destined to be outcast get accepted. At summercamp a few years ago, the boy who just couldn't keep from doing things that got him mocked had his skivies run up the flag pole. The boy, the SPL and the Troop guide had ALL of the older guys underwear up the flag pole the next morning. The older guys got back with a bucket of cold water during the new guy's shower one day. The next morning, all of the older guys found themselves on cots, on tent platforms, with no tent around them. the young guy and his two new friends unstaked the tents and just lifted them up off off them! It was the most hilarious thing any of us had ever seen.

 

No one viewed any of these pranks as harmful, and they are still talked about around campfires years later. I think because we channel the SPL and the Troop Guide into helping the young guy, he gets a sense that he kind of belongs. We teach the SPL to make sure the new guy knows that as long as the older guys are having fun with him, instead of at his expense, he can feel secure knowing that he is being accepted. And this tends to reduce the amount of inappropriate behavior the new guys exhibits.

 

I hope you will have noticed that there has been little intervention by adults in this method. And I think it's important that it look that way to everyone. But we are fortunate enough to have guys who follow a tradition in our Troop that goes back way before I got there: EVERY prank that is to be pulled is OKed by the SM or acting SM before it is done. Unlike many adults, we tend to let harmeless pranks go. When they might be dangerous, we tone them down are nix them. But because these are done with knowledge and consent, we've never had anyone hurt physically or emotionally. But our approval is very "behind the scenes", so that it is the boys (specifically the SPL and Troop Guide) who seem to be running the show. That way, the adults don't have to reach the frustration level you got to.

 

I'm sure everything will work out for you and your Troop. It's very important for all involved, boys and adults, to realize that you guys learn every day, too. I tell most everyone I know that the first day I'm perfect, all the rest of you people who can't be perfect are in big trouble. No one seems too worried. We all muff it once in a while. Learn, make sure the boys learn, and make sure the boys see that you learned. All will be better for this.

 

Good luck!!!

 

Mark

[frank10]

Take a deep breath and then relax. You may have lost it, but you didn't do all that bad. A few points:

 

Two adults at camp is just not enough. They had you out numbered. There's no way you can keep up with the program, hold down the camp site, deal with one or more special needs scouts and still have time to work with the boys. I like to have at least four so each team can step away from the action every now and then.

 

Your Unit leaders have no right looking down on you. As you point out, the boys SHOULD have know better. The hazing may have happened at camp, but the problem has roots that go much deeper... If there is any blame, it must be shared by all the leaders.

 

The fact that you are a female is only improtant when selecting which rest room door to use. Don't let them use that against you and don't do it to yourself. If woman are to be a part of the program they need to be treated as full leaders not the "B" team.

 

And finally, since it looks like the troop forgot to say it THANK YOU for taking the troop to camp. I'm sure you had other things you could have been doing. Giving up a week to take the boys when no one else was willing to gives you hero status in my book.

[mk9750]

wingnut,

 

During most every thread, someone writes something that makes me slap my head and think to myself, "I wish I had said that!"

 

Well, I wish I had said that. All of that. Excellent post.

 

Yes Laura, for those who may not have said it, Thank You!

 

Mark

[Twocubdad]

Right on, Wingnut!

 

Laura, I don't see where you have anything to be ashamed of or embarassed about -- you didn't swear, you didn't hit or threaten anyone, you didn't throw or kick stuff -- you got angry at a situation which, frankly, should have made you angry.

 

Anger is a perfectly reasonable response to certain situations. Reasonable people get angry over things about which they are passionate. Older Scouts abusing a weaker kid -- regardless of how big a pest he is -- certainly counts as one of those situations. It sounds to me that you very effectively communicated your feelings on what was happening. What would you have rather done, dispassionately approached the SPL and asked him if he could think of a better way to deal with the younger Scouts? Come on! This situation called for raising a little dust and it sounds like you did it well.

 

 

[LauraT7]

Thank you everyone, for your support -

It means alot that you don't think I totally muffed everything - hopefully the adults in my troop see it the same way - only time will tell.

 

Mark - I like your ideas about having the SPL and older boys 'pal-ing" with the "odd-man-out" - and as I had already calmly talked to the SPL and patrol leaders and other 'ringleaders' about this throughout the week - I actually think my outburst shook them awake more than anything else had.

 

I also think you are right about the pranks - some pranking and jokes add to the 'romance' of summer camp memories. I remember having my undies run up the flagpole, and running up someone else's! I also remember (as a counselor) taking one counselors' bed, trunk, table and everything and setting it up on the swim float out in the lake! I like your idea of "EVERY prank that is to be pulled is OKed by the SM or acting SM before it is done" - this lets the boys have their fun - but assures some forethought and awareness of consequences of the prank. the biggest thing with the boys and these kind of pranks -is that they do something impulsively and never think of 'what happens next?' also- you gotta be able to 'take it' if you 'dish it out' and you have to make sure no one gets really hurt - physically OR emotionally.

[ozemu]

Passion is not a bad thing Laura.

 

You were honest and obviously so. The Scouts will respect that especially if you apoligise for hurtful things that you may have said. They will know that you care.

 

The adults may be a problem. If their children get over it (they have it seems) then so will most adults. The others can take a hike. Or a camp. Or a Merit Badge. How can they criticise accurately otherwise?

 

Traditions (norms) should be born from Troop reactions to stress. Seems like you are creating new traditions - new rules with your Troop. As you should. If it was easy it wouldnt be so important.

 

Well done. You did better than I would have I suspect.

[silver-shark]

LauraT7

 

You did great except for not having enough adults along. That's what you need to be the most vocal about TO YOUR COMMITTEE !!! It's THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to make sure you have enough adults along. You don't have to put up with that !

 

We run a 10 to 1 ratio of scouts to adults with a minimum of 4 adults in case of accidents. (We have 48 boys total in the troop) If you have more special needs kids, bump the 10 to 1 to more like 5-7 to 1. (We have those too)

 

I know you will hear, "well... we just can't get enough people to take a weeks vacation to go with you." THAT'S BULL !!! They don't have to take the whole week. They can split the week up however they see fit. This usually works out better anyway.

 

Last year we took 21 scouts, 4 full time adults, and 3 part time adults. By Wednesday (the day all heck broke loose) we needed the fresh perspective of the adults that hadn't dealt with the STUFF of the first part of the week. (2 of our scout in a fist fight in front of the QM Shack, escorted back to camp by the Camp Director. Several of us were livid.)

 

This year we have 27 scouts currently at camp, 3 full time leaders, 4 part time (making 2 full time) leaders, and I went down to get them settled in Sunday night. I'm going for the full day tomorrow (passing of the baton day for the part timers). And I'm going back Saturday to help with Blue Cards while the boys pack up.

 

Like I said... You did nothing wrong, but your committee sure let you down as far as having enough adults along !!!