troop_358_potlatch Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 for the Eagle palms the order is bronze, gold and then silver? Usually gold is the top of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 You're not from a military family are you? Look at the Army (Colonel and Lt. Colonel), Navy, etc. Silver bars, eagles, etc. symbolize a higher rank than gold. Why? Forget about our capitalistic society for a moment and think about the Lone Ranger, knights in shining armor, myths, heraldry, etc. Silver was always held as pure, true, etc. Did the Lone Ranger shoot gold bullets? No. Gold, a rarer metal that silver, has a higher monetary value (what our society hold dear nowadays I'm afraid) but silver always has held a higher "value" in other areas than gold.(This message has been edited by acco40)(This message has been edited by acco40) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Right Acco, I had always heard that the "silver over gold" comes from the military, though I had not heard the part about the the origins of the military practice. I would only add that this "symbolism" is not limited to Eagle palms but is standard in Scouting. A Wolf or Bear Cub Scout first earns a gold arrow point, then when more electives have been completed, a silver arrow point(s). I believe that the patches for Senior Patrol Leader and Assistant Senior Patrol Leader still have some use of silver and gold, respectively, though not quite as colorfully as when I was in these positions in the mid-70s. (I recently looked at my old patches and noticed this again, the SPL patch had a silver border, silver lettering and silver bars, while the ASPL patch had all these things in gold. I believe the same was true for PL and APL, and I assume SM and ASM. I think the different color borders are still in use in Cub Scouting, the Cubmaster patch has a silver border while the Assistant Cubmaster Patch does not (I believe it is gold.) I also believe that Venturing has awards of the same name and order as the Eagle palms. (Interestingly, Girl Scouts do go in the same order as the Olympics, their highest award being the Gold Award.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsteele Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 You're on the right track. And now, to delve into the truly arcane -- notice that the Unit Commissioner position patch, the District Executive patch, and the Scout Executive patch have silver olive wreaths and lettering while the ADC and Roundtable commissioners and Senior DE, Council Executive staff, etc. have gold. The silver stands for direct service and the gold is support. Just a bit of patch trivia on a July day. Enjoy! DS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Acco40, to borrow from Bob White, spoken with great conviction but wrong. The reason that the Army has silver and gold versions of bars and oak leaves has nothing to do with the value of the metal or the meaning of the metal. For the complete story visit www.perscomonline.army.mil/tagd/tioh/ROTC%20Misc%20NGB%20page/Silver%20and%20Gold%20Insignia.htm A few years ago, I read why BSA goes bronze, gold, silver but I can't find that information now. I'll keep looking. (This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 That link did not work. I looked around and found the same document at https://www.perscom.army.mil/tagd/tioh/ROTC%20Misc%20NGB%20page/Silver%20and%20Gold%20Insignia.htm It is interesting and explains among other things that while in ranks, silver outranks gold, in most military awards, gold is highest followed by silver and bronze. So why is it that I have heard of the Bronze Star and the Silver Star but not the Gold Star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 The Medal of Honor is a star and you could call its color goldish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlculver415 Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 I had trouble with the link, so now I speak in ignorance. That's OK, though, I seem to reside there. I had always thought that while the color is gold, the metal is brass. (My dad always used Brasso to clean his gold-colored insignia.) Bronze being a brass and tin mix, that makes sense to me. The ascending order would then be Bronze (mix), brass, silver - silver being the most valuable metal represented. Gold was too valuable to use for rank insignia, but makes a great award for outstanding service or achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Brass and bronze are both alloys of copper, the former primarily with zinc and the latter primarily with tin. I believe that bronze is usually harder than brass but I'm not a metalurgist so I may be wrong. FWIW, my butter bars were gold (well, gold plate) but my buckle and many other parts of my uniform were brass and required polishing. Try the link that NJCubScouter posted. My link takes you off to neverland with warning about secure servers. How I got there in the first place, I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlculver415 Posted July 19, 2003 Share Posted July 19, 2003 Thank you - very informative. Don't know why it didn't work earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now