Too Many Troops?

[GTD]

I was wondering if anybody knows what the guidelines are for the number of scout troops allowed for a given population/community.

 

To give you a little background, I live in a community of 12,000 people and we have 2 strong Boy Scout Troops and one small troop already. I was just informed that there would be 1 more troop starting up in the near future. Recruitment is difficult enough already, and now we'll have to compete with one more troop. I'm afraid this will hurt us considerably and am surprised that our council would approve a new startup.

 

So does anybody have an idea as to what criteria BSA uses when considering whether or not there is a sufficient population to support a troop/troops?

[Chug]

If you're offering an exciting and varied program young people will naturally come to your troop. It's the reason that our Explorer Unit is full and with a waiting list whilst the other unit just down the road closed down due to lack of interest.

 

[Eamonn]

"So does anybody have an idea as to what criteria BSA uses when considering whether or not there is a sufficient population to support a troop/troops?"

Hi and Welcome.

It can be said that as the BSA doesn't own the Troops, it has no control over how many Troops there are.

Chartering Organizations "Own" The Troops.

I live close to a small town with a population of under 5000. The local Roman Catholic church charters a Troop, the Presbyterian church charters a Troop,Two Methodist churches charter Troops, the local Elks charters a Ship and the VFW charters a Troop.

I feel sure if there was a LDS Church in town they would also have a charter.

Troops are seen as the youth program of the organization of that charters them.

While many Scouter's think that there are too many Troops in some areas there is never going to come a day when any Council or National is ever going to say that is so.

One of the requirements for Quality District is to end the year with at least one more unit than the District had at the start of the year. So if two units fold you need to start three!! This can at times be a real problem. For a while many Councils and Districts "Started Venturing Crews" as a way to kinda get around the requirement. Of course this in time came back to bite everyone in the tail.

Some of my good friends really do think that the reason why the BSA is so keen to have more and more units is because they know that over time weak units become strong and even strong units do have a habit of one day just not being there anymore. I'm not sure about that??

As volunteers we need to look at what we are doing and view it as a kind of stewardship. The units we serve are never our units they belong to the CO but we build them and take care of them for the youth who will one day join. The Scouts we serve today will in time be gone and if the unit is to survive we need to ensure that we have a strong foundation are welcoming new blood and are open to new ideas and change.

I have seen a good number of really great Troops fall apart and fold when a SM has for some reason had to leave. The sad truth is that "One Man Bands" can do a great job, but in time we all go and when these guys go all too often so does the unit.

I have to admit if I were the District Chairman in your area, I'd be pushing the Membership Committee to tart at least five or six more Troops.

Eamonn.

 

[scoutldr]

One of the demographics that your District Committee and DE will track is "TAY" or "total available youth". It's the number of youth of Scouting age in your District's geographic area, gleaned mainly from school populations. As long as that number is greater than the number of BSA members in the District, they will try to start new units. # of new units is also one of the metrics that determines whether a DE succeeds or fails as a professional Scouter. They would much rather have 20 units with 5 scouts each than two 50 scout units.

 

I agree...recruitment is difficult, and it's getting worse. But your enemy is not the other troops.

[Gunny2862]

I think I'd have to hear GTD's definition of a Strong Troop in a Community of 12,000.

If there are two troops each pulling in 750-1000 Scouts then I can see where recruiting could get to be a bear.

 

If the combined existing Troops aren't breaking 200 then there isn't any reason another Troop or two or three couldn't be successful.

 

Recruiting can feel like a bear in the best of situations, Scouts will sometimes take an option just to show they can, Other Leaders will poach on Packs you have relationships with,

Some folks are just overly competitive about the whole thing.

 

On the other hand sometimes youth in the packs you have agreements/relationships with have a relationship with boys in the other Troop or with Leaders in the other Troop, that really isn't them poaching - besides the boys in the pack you have an agreement with are not yours to have been poached in the first place.

 

Just ensure that you have or are building a program that has a focus on providing the best program possible for your Scouts - ensure you are delivering the promise of Scouting to them - they'll show up AND bring their friends(occasionally from other Packs and Troops and you'll be accused of stealing their Scouts and making their recruiting harder).

[GTD]

Some great responses so far!

 

I think it's natural to look at new competition and not be worried about the effect it will have on our existing troop. But you guys are right; if we're running a quality program, the numbers will pretty much take of itself.

 

Thanks for the replies!

[Narraticong]

When we started our troop 1 1/2 years ago there were two well established troops within one mile of our Charter Organization. Both are good troops with solid leadership. Our boys would have had a good experience in either one. But we (adult leaders) felt there were still other ways of doing things. One of the other two troops has very entrenched adult leadership who are not very open to new ideas. The other is not particularly boy-led.

 

So we felt there was a niche for something a little different. We started with six boys and now are closing in on twenty. We have had several boys drop out of Scouting, but none transfer to other troops. We have had a few transfer in from other troops because we were a better fit for them.

 

As long as a new troop is offering something a little different, it is a good idea! We get along well with the other troops, and I think the "competition" keeps us all on our toes to offer an outstanding program!

[mikecummings157]

As someone else said, "Quality District" requires additonal units. As implemented in our Disctrict, what this seems to have done is create Venture Crews that aren't supported and fold after the kids get to college age, making the numbers look worse.

 

Also, when I was Cubmaster of a very strong pack, Council started another pack in the same school in order to feed a local troop that was near folding. Now there are two weak packs in the school, as the kids and volunteers are divided.

 

How about instead of "Total Available Youth", we start considering "Total Available Volunteers"? Creating more units is stretching the available adult leadership in our area, which is in turn hurting the retention of boys. At least in our locale, fewer, stronger units would be a benefit to the kids.

[scoutldr]

Assuming that each child has (or had) 2 biological parents,

TAV=(2)(TAY). Add in those (like me) whose boys aged out 9 years ago, and there should be more than enough.

 

 

[GoldFox]

I can sympathize with your issue. We started up 3 years ago. A group started a new troop that the district approved in an area about 25 miles away from us. Once they were chartered they moved to across the street from our unit. Boy was I hopping mad!! Nothing we could do about but focus on the program and making it the best we can so we attract new boys.

 

One would have thought the district key 3 could have talked to the CO of the new unit and get them to move to the area they were supposed to be in and are needed in. But they supposedly can't do that.

[tonys]

I understand the theory that 5 weak troops will have the volunteer's pot maximum effort in to recruiting boys so they don't fold but. that is just effort taken away from the boys. in by town we have 5 troops usually 1 or 2 strong 2 so so and 1 weak the troops grow and shrink but total available boys are about what national expects. the newest 2 troops were started by people who wanted to be SM to there sons then left. only 1 troop has a permanent meeting place provided by their CO. our problem is only 3 cub packs and per national's numbers not enough cubs for the population. council doesn't care DE talks about working on the cub side but can't seen to get anything going and o yea word is another CM wants his own troop!!

[imasoonerfan]

GTD I feel your pain. Even though I live in a major metropolitan area our district keeps popping up new Troops every chance they get. Sure there is an endless number of boys to pull from but 95% of our Scouts come from Cubs and there are only so many of them to recruit.

 

Our district seems more interested in adding units so they can make Quality District than they do taking care of the units that already exist. We have several units in our District that are struggling and on the verge of closing and yet we still push to open more units.

 

In my opinion they should concentrate their energy in strengthening the existing units and making sure they are stable and retaining the Scouts in those units. Once all of them are stable they could them look at adding more units.

 

Another issue I have run into I we had a Cub Pack fold in February 2008 that was within a mile from my Pack. It folded due to lack of volunteers. The parents wanted their kids in Scouting but were not willing to volunteer to be leaders. I requested the names of the Scouts in that pack so I could contact them to see if they would like to join our Pack. My DE told me no that he was going to try to start that pack up again in September 2008. My argument to him was he was going to leave those boys hanging for 7 months and they would lose interest. He disagreed. I called the CM who had just crossed over to a Troop and he gave me the info and I was able to recruit a few of them. To this date the unit has NOT been restarted.

 

 

 

[DenZero]

You must get more points for starting a new unit than you lose for closing an old unit.

 

Our DE found a willing chartered org., and spent 3 years trying to start a new pack 1/2 mile from my struggling pack. He spent an awful lot of effort while were screamin for help. He wasnt able to get any takers at the new pack, and eventually gave up. Meanwhile, our old pack is likely to fold this year.

 

 

[scoutldr]

At the close of the charter year, the District needs to have more units on the books than it had last year. So if a unit folds, that means you have to replace that one, PLUS get a new one (or more). Like when I worked in retail as a kid...the store manager was always worried about "making the day". At close of business, he needed to have more net sales (sales minus returns) than he had on the same date last year. Those who kept coming up short were replaced.

[NeilLup]

Let's see. Some rules of thumb.

 

A community of 12,000 people. Say 2000-4000 of those are children.

 

Of those, half are girls and not eligible so 1000-2000.

 

Assuming age is distributed pretty evenly, each year group would be about 50-100 boys. The realistic targeted Boy Scout age boys would be about 150-350.

 

Assuming a density of 25% which is neither great or terrible for Boy Scouting, that would mean that in the community, you have 40-85 boys who might reasonably be expected to be be Boy Scouts.

 

If the total membership of the current units is in the 85+ range, it may be tough for the new unit. If it's in the 40 range, then there is probably plenty of reasonable opportunity. Somewhere in between, then it's somewhat in between.

 

If it's a community with a high LDS (Mormon) population where the youth are required to be Boy Scout members, then the numbers get skewed toward the high end.

 

So what, may I ask are the statistics in your community? Is it a young community with lots of kids in the high end of the range. Or is it an older community with very few kids. How many schools are there? How big are the current units?

 

These are the questions that the district asks before trying to start a new unit.