Council Lost Adult Training Records 5 Times in 8 Years --> Incompetance?

[dluders]

1. A few days ago I received a form letter from my council's Program Director. It reminded me of the "new training requirements for adult leaders", and stated that "Our records currently indicate that as an Assistant Scoutmaster you have not yet completed the following course(s): New Leaders Essentials and Scoutmaster & Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training." This letter marked the 5th time in 8 years that my council has "lost" my training records.

 

2. I already had provided my council with those (and other) training certificates, as recently as last autumn. Although I received the Boy Scout Leader Training Award and Scoutmaster's Key for being a Scoutmaster for 3-3/4 years, my council apparently lost those records too. I even graduated from Wood Badge in 2004, but (apparently) that achievement has been "lost" too.

 

3. There's some systemic problem, or gross incompetance, with record keeping in my council. They apparently don't do any backups of their computer records. I have mused that the Council Registrar should be fired.

 

4. Although I do have my training records, I'm refusing to resubmit them. Those Scouters who didn't keep their records apparently have to get retrained in order to recharter. Why waste Scouters' valuable time when the council's INCOMPETANCE keeps losing the same records, over and over?

 

5. If you were in my shoes, would you just resubmit the records for the 6th time, or would you hold the council responsible? After all, "A Scout Is Trustworthy" not to lose records or waste valuable time. Your thoughts?

[Lisabob]

Well I think, among other actions, I'd send a photocopy of all my documentation, along with a tersely worded letter, to the SE, asking the SE to respond in writing with an explanation and a proposed solution. In that letter I'd explain that this would be the final time I'd be submitting my documents, and (depending on how annoyed I was feeling that day!) maybe also that the next time they lose them, I'd find a better-managed youth organization to serve. I'd probably CC the council president and my DE too.

 

 

[dluders]

Naw, I already wrote such a letter to the Scout Executive last time. It didn't do any good. This time, I'm going to raise the issue at the council's "Open House" on October 30th. I want to know how many other Scouters are getting jacked-around with similar form letters, and wasting their time re-taking the same course.

 

I want the council to FIND my training records. You know, the ones that I EARNED through MANY WEEKENDS away from my family. They're going to ACKNOWLEDGE their recurring, systemic problem and FIX IT once and for all.

 

Any small business who lost their records 5 times in 8 years would go bankrupt. It's time this council's lackadaisical recordkeeping be brought to light in front of the whole crowd at the Open House. Enough is enough.

[shortridge]

Did the council actually lose the physical paper files, or was information simply mis-keyed into a database by temp employees?

[Bob White]

1) Certainly you did not spend several weekends away from your family taking NLE (a 90-minute course), or Scoutmaster specific, (a 1-day course), so lets keep this in perspective.

 

2) If the Counil office staff has to keep rentering training info for every scouter in the council they are certainly creating far more work for theselves then they are for you.

 

3) Refusing to cooperate is going to have more of a negative effect on you then on them, so I am not sure just who you are trying to impress through your attitude and decision.

 

4) Calm done. Be helpful, friendly, courteous, cheerful. Take two minutes and give them the help they need then move on to something else. You are making far too big an issue of this.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Ohio_Scouter]

If I were in your shoes, I would not resubmit my records again, but I would attempt to hold the council responsible.

 

If your council is anything like my council, no matter how many times you submit your training records, or how many letters you write, the council will continue to lose any documentation you send them. IMO, competence does not seem to be a job requirement for council staff. After all, your council could have lost your records 8 times in 8 years .

 

Alternatively, you could notify your council to send you a stamped, self-addressed envelope with an appropriate processing fee, and you would resubmit your training records via registered mail (signature receipt) as soon as possible.

[Lisabob]

Try making a personal appointment to meet the SE and discuss face to face. Put him on the spot and be blunt about your displeasure, but (at least the first time) I think you do owe it to him to do this privately before you string him up publicly at the council open house. Then follow up with him in writing with a letter requesting a written response. CC council president on your letter. It sounds like your options are as follows:

1) Give in and grumble.

2) Leave the organization and find another council with better management or another youth program to serve.

3) Keep the fire lit under the SE until he/she decides to focus on getting it fixed.

 

Now let's consider the number of weekends/evenings of training that we could be talking about for a highly trained SM. Sure, some of these can be done now online, but that's fairly recent and I still know many folks who have done these in face-to-face classes instead. I don't know exactly what training this particular poster has done but most WB'ers I know have gone to more than just the bare minimum.

 

NLE

SM training

OLS

Woodbadge

University of Scouting?

Safe Swim/Safety Afloat?

Climb on/Trek Safely?

YPT?

LNT?

Others?

(plus any cub or venturing training that a leader might have done)

 

Not to mention the tenure for BS leader training and Scoutmaster's Key awards.

 

I'd be annoyed too if my council lost my records of all my training on a yearly basis. It IS a sign of incompetence, causes people to harbor ill feelings about training (why should I go, they'll just lose the records anyway) and undermines faith in the council's record keeping abilities for other (more important!) matters like youth advancement records.

 

[Bob White]

Again Lisabob, according to his post, all they asked for was dates for NLE and SM Specific. Exagerating the situation does nothing to resolve it.

[Lisabob]

And if they only lost those, (though he indicates that they also lost all of his other records too), he still has every right to be annoyed by this. Any council that loses adult records 5 times in 8 years appears to have a data management problem.

 

The results of such problems are, as seen here in the posts of various scouters, a loss of confidence in council records of all sorts (justified or not) and the risk of angering dedicated volunteers (which is bad policy for a volunteer-driven organization).

 

[RememberSchiff]

Excuse the obvious question. Is your full name often misspelled or abbreviated? Have you seen a list of ALL who received training and you were definitely not on it?

 

Usually in cases of "lost" records, many people are affected and you have not said this of your council. I am wondering if your information was electronically misfiled.

 

I relate, for many years, my council listed me as Troop Committee and not ASM. Finally was fixed.

[Bob White]

Perhaps the problem is that some charter organizations are choosing adults who get angry over trivial things adults. So the council has lost his records 5 times. Lets say he has to go out of his way for 15 minutes to correct them. The fellow has had to take an extra hour and fiteen minutes during the last EIGHT YEARS to keep his training record straight.

 

Explain to us why this is worth him getting bent out of shape over?

 

He has a troop he admits ignored the advancement policies of the BSA, do you suppose the council office staff ran around calling him incompetent?

 

Remember the part about "help other people at ALL times"? Well maybe he needs to put his temper tantrum aside and be helpful, then move on to more important things.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[shortridge]

Without putting words in anyone else's mouth, I think the big-picture complaint here revolves around customer service, rooted in the feeling that the professional staff - whether DEs or clerks - are paid to get stuff right.

 

Granted, we're all human. But volunteers send in their forms and information with the not-unreasonable expectation that they're in good hands and aren't going to be lost or miscategorized.

 

I agree that it's perhaps not a gigantic issue that should lead to a big stir in public. But I can certainly understand the frustration.

[Bob White]

Who exactly was ever paid to "get it wrong"?

 

Just because people or systems in the past lost the info does not make the people who are trying to correct it incompetent. Nor does having a temper tantrum and refusing to cooperate do anything to support the vales of the program that are taught vigorously at the trining courses that happen to be at issue.

 

 

[scoutldr]

Yes, there is gross incompetence. By my observation it is a surging epidemic in this country, and it frightens the bejeebers out of me. From the kid in the DQ window who can't make change, to the NASA engineers who can't keep metric and English units straight. No one is being held accountable any more, and we all suffer for it.

 

"A few days ago I received a form letter from my council's Program Director"

 

If it were me, I would have muttered "Morons" under my breath, tossed it in the trash and keep on Scoutin'. As long as you have your cards in your pocket, who cares what the Council records say? Not my problemo.

[shortridge]

Just because people or systems in the past lost the info does not make the people who are trying to correct it incompetent.

 

If they're the same people, yes, it does.

 

Trying to flip this around from a different perspective... If I'm a unit-level Scouter and continually lose key documents - say, a copy of the unit charter, advancement forms, tour permits, etc. - and folks at Council have to keep sending me replacements, they're going to get exasperated, probably very much so to the point of complaining to my COR, unit commissioner or DE. The OP is in roughly the same boat. It's sounds like a legitimate complaint in my book.

 

On the other hand, if one does not take steps to correct the situation and if the Council rules that its incorrect records are indeed correct, then one has to face the consequences. Unless you have a strong COR on your side, it's hard to "hold the council responsible," as dluders suggested.(This message has been edited by shortridge)