Who is Council Anyway?

[OldGreyEagle]

SO, the question was asked, Who is Council, I think it was asked, anyway I am asking it.

 

Ed says its whoever is employed by the Council he serves.

 

I can see that, but if that is true, then if a DE says its ok to mandate that all candidates for an Eagle Board of Review must be in full and complete uniform, would it be proper to say that Council says all Eagle candidates must be in full and complete uniform?

 

Awhile back I was the Council Venturing Chairman. The Scout Executive was very supportive of Venturing. I asked the Council Training Chairman if his commmittee would help with training Venturing Adults. He said no, that we would have to be a bigger group for him to help us. I replied that if we were a bigger group we wouldnt need his help. He said to check back with him when we were larger. So, the Professional was supportive, the Volunteer not so much. Could I say I had or lacked Council Support for training Venturing Leaders.

 

We had a Venturing Cardboard Boat Regatta, the boats do actually float, well for awhile. But, the Council let us use the Council Camp and facilities at no cost to us, only an understanding we would leave the place better than we found it. So, I had Council Support for Venturing's Cardboard Boat Regatta.

 

Then, while talking to some Council Camping Committee members about a Venturing week of camp I was told we were to small and expensive to dedicate a whole week of camp to. So, again, I did not have Council support.

 

I think the inevitable answer is found in Walt Kelley's Pogo Comic Strip, "We have met the enemy....and he is us."

 

[Bob White]

I don't think you can fully understand 'who' the Council is without understanding 'what' the Council is.

 

The Council is two things. It is a corporation formed within a specific geographic area that is chartered to fulfill the purposes of of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

It is also an association of Chartered Organizations that use the programs of the Boy Scouts of America, PLUS the addition of men and women who are interested in all youth in the council area.

 

To think that a Council is just the professionals we hire to do the day to day administration of the corporation's business is no different than thinking that an Iceberg is only made of what you can see above the water line.

 

Just as people know that the bulk of the iceberg is below the water line, the bulk of the council is is made primarily of volunteers who work in the backgound to support unit scouting, and the growth of scouting in the council area. All the volunteers who serve within the district are actually part of "the Council", as the District is just a service area of the council.

 

Think of it like this ...Council's establish policies and programs, Districts carry out the policies and programs within a specific service area.

 

So the Council is composed of a few professionals PLUS, ALL the chartering organizations, and ALL the volunteers who serve the purposes of the BSA as either chartered partners with the BSA or serving to support the units chartered partners, and those involved in the operation of the corporation of the Council, and those involved in furthering the growth of scouting within a community on behalf of the council body.

 

But one needs to know to look beyond the tip of the iceberg.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Kahuna]

That, OGE, is somewhat akin to asking, "Who is God?" The answer will depend on who you ask. Some will say, "I am." Those are generally people you want to avoid. "Council" is an entity, like government.

You can ask an IRS representative a tax question and pay a big fine for following the advice given. As many of us know from personal experience, your military recruiter will promise you duty in Hawai'i as a lifeguard if that's what it takes to get you to sign up. Later, when you're doing KP in Afghanistan, you realize he was not "the government"

There are times that council approval is required for this or that. A signature on a tour permit or an application means that someone has taken legal responsibility for giving you permission. Then there is "black letter" stuff found in bylaws, handbooks, staff manuals or what have you that has the imprimatur of "council". I would rely on that. If my DE gave me an opinion, I would take it as just that. His opinion. The same would go for the SE unless he puts it writing.

I think the inevitable answer is found in Walt Kelley's Pogo Comic Strip, "We have met the enemy....and he is us."

I think you are exactly right.

[jmwalston]

OGE,

 

I like that, the professional side of the house supports you and the volunteer side doesn't. Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. We have somewhat of the same running of operations in my Council, and it extends down into the Districts. I've noticed that the professionals will encourage you and give support, wanting the organization to grow and thrive. Can't blame them, they will reap the benefits monetarily. But the volunteer side doesn't want to get on board. True check and balance.

 

Reminds me of an old Blackadder episode. Blackadder has been "promoted" to Lord Archbishop of Canterbury so he can support his father, the King, in the crown's acquisition of land inheritances. His half-brother, Harry, immediately assumes Blackadder is now an authority on theology and asks, "If my right hand offends me and I strike it off, what do I do in then my left hand offends me? How do I strike it off?" Sounds like the volunteers side of our Councils are left-handed.

[BadenP]

Another aspect to a council is that while the SE sets up a plan of action with his executive committee to benefit the units programs as well as raise funds to support council programs and expenses, he still gets his marching orders, aka priorities and goals from National.

 

While we volunteers like to believe that the SE works for us that is only true on a superficial level. If the board wants an SE to be replaced they have to appeal to Regional, part of National,to prove their case to dismiss him and then ask for the file of available replacements. So who really is in control?

 

Volunteers should feel proud about belonging to a council, especially when things are going good, as they should, but as OGE found out firsthand sometimes the needs of the one outweighs the needs of the few or the many. If you have good professionals in your council support them!

[emb021]

"SO, the question was asked, Who is Council, I think it was asked, anyway I am asking it.

Awhile back I was the Council Venturing Chairman. The Scout Executive was very supportive of Venturing. I asked the Council Training Chairman if his commmittee would help with training Venturing Adults. He said no, that we would have to be a bigger group for him to help us. I replied that if we were a bigger group we wouldnt need his help. He said to check back with him when we were larger. So, the Professional was supportive, the Volunteer not so much. Could I say I had or lacked Council Support for training Venturing Leaders.

 

Then, while talking to some Council Camping Committee members about a Venturing week of camp I was told we were to small and expensive to dedicate a whole week of camp to. So, again, I did not have Council support."

 

Uh, this is why Council Venturing Committees are formed.

 

When the regular opertating committees of the council (training, camping, marketing, etc) aren't supporting Venturing, then you form a Council Venturing Committee of volunteers to provide this (with the hopes these functions move to those committees).

 

Its not a one man operations. Were was your committee? Did you get a training person on your committee to spearhead training? A camping person to spearhead venturing camping?

 

that's how it works.

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

emb, I don't know how Venturing is run in any other Council, I can only go on my experience. When I was Venturing Chair, the only people interested in being on the Council Venturing Committee were Venturing adults who were also active on the local unit level. In the Council I serve, District and Council Committees are usually filled with adults who no longer have youth in the program. Since there were no Ventuting Scouters whose youth had aged out of the program as yet, there wasnt a lot of people to pull from who had Venturing experience so I thought going to the Council Committees assigned the role of training and camping would be a good idea. On the Council Chart I was given, it said Training Committe, not Cub and Boy Scout Training Committee, I thought they were to service Venturing as well or at least help. Similarly the Camping Committee is not labeled Cub and Boy Scout Camping, I thought they could/should help Venturing out. Instead, Venturing was regarded as the step child that volunteers didnt understand, and still dont and many dont want to try to understand.

 

So, what happened? Venturing has developed as a step child. We have separate Roundtables/Forums from the Cub and Boy Scouts. We have our own Training Committee, we have our own Activities Committee. All duplications of exisitng committees that serve to only enhance the separation and increase the sense of isolation and I dont think thats the way its supposed to work.

 

[emb021]

"I don't know how Venturing is run in any other Council, I can only go on my experience. When I was Venturing Chair, the only people interested in being on the Council Venturing Committee were Venturing adults who were also active on the local unit level. In the Council I serve, District and Council Committees are usually filled with adults who no longer have youth in the program."

 

There do exist venturing adults who aren't active in local units, etc. I am an example of such.

 

"Since there were no Ventuting Scouters whose youth had aged out of the program as yet, there wasnt a lot of people to pull from who had Venturing experience so I thought going to the Council Committees assigned the role of training and camping would be a good idea. On the Council Chart I was given, it said Training Committe, not Cub and Boy Scout Training Committee, I thought they were to service Venturing as well or at least help."

 

You are correct. It's the Training Committee. Ideally, the training committee should be providing cub scout AND boy scout AND venturing training. By people who know the program(s). (ie, no Boy Scout person providing Venturing training with no understand of Venturing, etc_

 

And if they aren't, this is why a Council Venturing Committee (CVC) is needed to step in and make it happens.

 

"Similarly the Camping Committee is not labeled Cub and Boy Scout Camping, I thought they could/should help Venturing out. Instead, Venturing was regarded as the step child that volunteers didnt understand, and still dont and many dont want to try to understand."

 

Sadly, true. Again, why CVC are many times needed.

 

"So, what happened? Venturing has developed as a step child. We have separate Roundtables/Forums from the Cub and Boy Scouts. We have our own Training Committee, we have our own Activities Committee. All duplications of exisitng committees that serve to only enhance the separation and increase the sense of isolation and I dont think thats the way its supposed to work."

 

Well, in most cases because we are a step child, we have to step up and provide our own support until we can get that support moved into the proper committees.

 

You can either sit there and what for the support to magically appear (like some people seem to do) or you can make it happen (like many people try to do).

 

However, it should be done in conjunction with those committees. The training person on the CVC should ALSO be on the council training committee. The camping person on the CVC should ALSO be on the council camping committee, etc. If that is not happening, then, yes, you are creating that true separation.

 

We should have separate Venturing Roundtables only to the extent that Cub Scout & Boy Scout Roundtables are 'separate': they are run in separate rooms. VRT have the extra 'strangeness' that you have youth officers there, along with the adults.

 

All of this will be covered more clearly in the new edition of the "Here's Venturing" book coming out this fall, and is the topic of the training event at PTC on "Delivering Venturing to your District/Council" which they've been running for several years.

 

 

I will also point out that Sea Scouts have had their own committees at council, area, regional, and national since the 20s. It has worked for them, and IMO, the long-term survival of that program over the years has been due to their existance...

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I didnt think there was such a thing as a Venturing Roundtable, A Venturing Forum perhaps but a rose by any other name...

 

 

[Bob White]

"I will also point out that Sea Scouts have had their own committees at council, area, regional, and national since the 20s. It has worked for them, and IMO, the long-term survival of that program over the years has been due to their existance... "

 

Relatively few councils have Sea Scout Committees. Area committee seem to have been sporadic over the years. I do agree that there have been National and regional committees for the time period you said.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[jmwalston]

"I didnt think there was such a thing as a Venturing Roundtable, A Venturing Forum perhaps but a rose by any other name..."

 

I wasn't aware they were called Venturing Forums. In my District, they are referred to as Venturing Roundtable. They do meet on a separate night and at a separate location from the Cub and Boy Scout Roundtable.

[emb021]

"I didnt think there was such a thing as a Venturing Roundtable, A Venturing Forum perhaps but a rose by any other name... "

 

When Venturing was rolled out 10 years ago, they rolled out Venturing Roundtables.

 

They put out a Venturing Roundtable Guide in 2000.

 

Last year (2007), they decided to rename them "Monthly Forums" and rolled out a retitled VRG under the name "Venturing Monthly Program Forum"

 

Most people who have been involved with Venturing more then a year or so call them Roundtables, because calling them Forums is a very recent change...

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

BUZZWORD ... BINGO!!!!

 

Roundtable, Forum, Program Support Meeting, Leader Service Night...

 

That it happens, that it effectively communicates information to unit serving Scouters and offers feedback from them are the things that matter. The name can even be Lolly or Kybo if the message gets across!

 

Sheesh.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Bob White]

If you loook in the Insignia Guide there ar POR patches for Venturing Roundtable Commissioner, and Venturing Roundtable Staff.

[John-in-KC]

From a scouting.org search on Venturing Roundtable:

 

5. Venturing

... VK33491D Venturing Monthly Program FORUM Venturing Monthly Program Forum

Replaces the Venturing Roundtable Guide. The Venturing ...

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/25-200.pdf

 

Sounds to me like the Council Solutions Group (nee Venturing Division) and Supply Corporation are not talking to each other.

 

Like I said: Buzzword bingo.