Camp Crews - Who is the CO?

[Eamonn]

Back when I was District Chair and now I'm serving as a membership Chair. I was very worried that each and every year we had an organization ready and willing to become a chartered partner.

It would seem that if Councils can become a CO, this was a waste of my time and energy?

Looking at Venturing Crews that seem to be chartered by Council owned camps; We could bypass the CO completely.

The SE could be the Executive Officer, DE's could be the COR.

Heck if we really try we might be able to do away with volunteers all together!!

Eamonn.

[NealOnWheels]

SE and DE "owning" the unit seems scary to me. Professional scouters performance is often based on various numbers. Which is ok for evaluating job performance but does not fully evaluate the quality of a unit's performance.

 

I would fear that with pressure to meet the numbers they would loose sight of the intagibles that make a good unit.

 

With that in mind I don't feel it a waste of time to recruit charted partners.

[Stosh]

Eamonn, you seem to be more interested in doing things right than in expediency. BSA has no other medium to handle their female camp staff if they happen to be under the age of 18. Instead of simply registering them as adults they have come up with a work-around called a venturing crew. But even as adults they have to belong to a unit of somekind and have CO approval. As Venturing members this can be avoided. Are you seeing the pattern here? This kind of thing goes back to if one doesn't like their CO they can form their own unit if they have 5 concerned adults to be the committee. Then the CO becomes the 5 Concerned Adults organization with a scouting unit.

 

Maybe one should check it out, their camp staff venturing crew might indeed be sponsored by this national organization known as 5 Concerned Adults.

 

Stosh

[Eamonn]

Stosh,

I have to disagree with:

"BSA has no other medium to handle their female camp staff if they happen to be under the age of 18"

Every other employer who employs youth manages to hire them without making them a member of some fictitious Crew.

I have hired youth as bus-persons and dishwashers.

What makes the employee of a Council which is a corporation any different?

If a young person were to be hired as a Sales Person in our Council run Scout Shop. - Would they have to join a "Scout Shop Sales Crew" ?

Camp Staff no matter how we view them are employees of the Council. Having them register as youth members might facilitate them wearing a uniform, but other than that I see no reason why they should sign up as members.

They could if they are 18 sign up as Merit Badge Counselors, without becoming full members.

Having them wear a uniform of a pretend unit? Just seems a bit silly to me.

Eamonn.

[Twocubdad]

Eamonn;

 

National Camp Standards require all camp staff to be registered members of BSA. I suspect a Venture crew is the easiest way to register girls age 14-18. Staffers over age 18 could be registered as district committee members, but I don't know how else you would register a girl. I suppose one could reasonably ask why a girl under age 18 is on staff at a Boy Scout camp is she isn't already involved in Venturing, but I digress.

 

We have a similar problem at day camp where the same standard applies. Our camp is 100% volunteer run, with most of the volunteer being the parents of the cubs. A fair percentage don't hold positions within their packs and aren't registered. It's a big expense and hassle. Perhaps the new "Scout Parent" registration will solve this.

 

While I understand the camp thing, I, too, would be suspicious of council- or district-owned units popping up. Seems like these shennanigans pop up around December 34th every year. Some DE needs one more unit for Quality District. We went though a phase where every district registered their OA chapter as a crew. I think wiser heads put a stop to that.

[MissingArrow]

I'm the adviser for a Venturing Crew that registers the Camp Staff members that are not already in Scouting. As you can imagine the majority are female staff members, however we have some local and not so local male youth as well. Our adult roster includes a large number of out of state folks that want to stay attached to the Council they grew up in.

 

Our CO is actually a church, we are self sufficient and don't have much interaction with anyone there except for our COR.

 

We used to also register the Council's JLT Course staff until it was decided a District needed another Venturing Crew...

[scoutldr]

It probably varies from state to state, but is this a way to avoid paying minimum wage to camp staffers? Pay for 40 hrs...the "overtime" is donated volunteer time. Just a thought. I agree, it sounds like a scam to inflate the membership numbers. There's more than one way to make Quality Council.

[Eamonn]

Twocubdad

Thanks for the information.

It has been a while since I was involved with

National Camp Standards.

While this may be as it is? I'm left asking why?

Why not just have them as what they are are -employees of the Council?

What real purpose is served by having them, pretend to be Venturers?

What is achieved by adding a unit that never provides a program?

How hard would it be for National to come up with a Camp Staff position?

Allowing Councils to act as CO's, does in my view open a can of worms and is not a good idea.

Ea.

 

[BadenP]

Eamonn, there is no purpose other than a legal necessity to bypass some silly and poorly thought out rules. They will never be active Venturers, in otherwords they are nothing more than a paper unit for the three months of camp.

[scoutldr]

There is a "Camp Staff position"...it's called "Employee" and there is a position patch for uniform wear. Folks in the Scout Shop wear it.

[jmwalston]

The BSA Employee position would mean that the staff were paid comparable wages with benefits. Most camp staff under 18 receive a token wage and room and board. Don't see how you can register them as District or Council Committee members at large (which they are not) if they are under 18 (its a leadership position). If they are 18 or older, just register them as MB Counselors. That is free and doesn't cost District or Council fees. If they are under 18 and not already a member of a Venturing or Scout unit, what are they doing with the summer camp program anyway if not medical or food services?

[John-in-KC]

Our Camp Director has a Crew in real life. It operates away from Camp as well. It's chartered by an area theater league; it's arts oriented.

 

She does so well being the boss at Camp her Camp Staffers join her crew.

[Eamonn]

"The BSA Employee position would mean that the staff were paid comparable wages with benefits" ??

Comparable to what or who?

Benefits? Not every employer offers or has to offer benefits.

" Most camp staff under 18 receive a token wage and room and board"

Maybe I'm wrong? But I thought the BSA the same as other employers had to comply with State and Federal minimum wage laws.

 

 

" If they are under 18 and not already a member of a Venturing or Scout unit, what are they doing with the summer camp program anyway if not medical or food services?

I can and do see that at time there can be a need for someone with a skill to be offered a job at a Scout Camp.

Many girls have Lifeguard qualifications, we have hired females to work in the COPE area, because no BSA members applied for the job.

A lot of youth have areas of interest that can be employed at camp and instructed at camp, this doesn't mean that the person doing the teaching or instructing has to be a BSA member.

A couple of years back I took the LNT Instructor Course. There were about 40 participants of the 40 only 2 of us were involved in Scouting. I don't know the ages of the younger participants? But some didn't look very old. Talking and listening to them , it seemed that they had a lot more experience than the average Boy Scout and I would think they would be a great addition to any camp staff. (In the right area.)

Eamonn.

 

[jmwalston]

At our Camp, the staff (under 18) generally received $100 - $200 a week plus room and board. The difference in "salary" was based on experience and area of instruction.

[NWScouter]

My understanding is the only ones in this state that has to keep strict records on hours and are paid by the hour is the dinning hall staffs the rest fall under some state rules for volunteers with stipends.

 

The volunteer part would play havoc with them registered as employees.

 

The crews that the camps staff are registered seem to turn out most of Venture advancement in our council and are quite active. See my post on young woman in camp Leah was president of the crew.