do we really need COs anymore?

[Lisabob]

Scoutldr makes an interesting comment about COs that I think is worthy of its own discussion:

 

"Maybe this whole rhubarb would be avoided if BSA would abandon the "chartering organization" concept and take over control of the units, as the GSUSA did. I think the whole concept is confusing and frought with incongruities. B-P's concept, if I remember correctly, was to issue a "warrant" to the Scoutmaster, which empowered him to form and operate a scout group."

 

So I ask - why do we need COs? What's wrong with the above approach, that is better for having COs?

 

Now I know that some COs are quite active in their unit program. I'm willing to bet though, that most (perhaps outside of a certain subgroup) are oblivious. I can count on one hand the number of active COs in my district, and perhaps in my council. They seem to be extremely rare. And if they weren't COs, those active groups would probably find other ways to support the units anyway.

 

When we look at the gulf between what BSA literature says about COs and what really happens, and the problems caused by this weak or nonexistent relationship (except on paper of course), I find Scoutldr's point to be worthy of consideration.

 

MODS - feel free to move this to the Council Relations forum if you think it fits better there; I wasn't sure where to put it.

[hops_scout]

Moved to Council Relations.. as long as it stays civil, that is where it makes the most sense I think...

[Gold Winger]

Might mean a loss of some income to the units and councils but the program wouldn't change much.

 

I know that the CO for my son's troop is psycho when it comes to dealing with the troop (and pack and crew). On one hand they like to trumpet that they have Boy Scouts and they proudly proclaim the new Eagles. On the other hand, they've threatened to kick us out of the meeting hall because the Scouts didn't do a good job of sweeping one week and we have to fight to get the hall for any day other than our usual Monday troop meetings. In fact, they've been known to let the hall out for other purposes on Monday evenings and then tell us to lump it.

 

I wanted to change COs years ago to the church that lets us use their facilities free of charge for committee meetings, dinners, PWD, BORs, etc..

 

If the system worked the way that it was supposed to, it would be great.

 

Then again, how many units are doing stuff for their COs?

 

 

[GernBlansten]

Our CO (Methodist Church) really is just a paper one for us too. They grant us a meeting space and closet to put stuff in. And a wall for a pin up board. But other than that, they consider us just like the AA group that meets at the same time. Just another group who uses there facility for free.

We have tried to be more involved IE scout Sunday, church cleanup weekends, eagle projects, etc. But they still look at us as just another group using the basement for free. The troop really belongs to our committee and SM, they keep it functional and running. The CO has no interest in us. The Catholic church down the street is more interested in supporting us than our CO. I jokingly mentioned at a meeting we should switch to them and was immediately shushed. Seems we have been chartered with this church for 50 years and we certainly wouldn't want to jeopardize that! If the idea of COs were dropped and the SM issued a warrant to run the troop, the only thing that would change for us is probably the meeting place.

[Bob White]

First you will need to get rid of all the lawyers. Without the insulation provided by the councils and CO's the BSA would be much smaller with far fewer resources (camps). Look at any other country that operates in the way you suggest and see the difference in the size of the program.

[Gonzo1]

If BSA "took over" all the units, who would "own" the gear? The unit or BSA? If BSA were to own the gear, what ould stop them from taking from a nicely equipped troop and helping a new troop by giving aaway your gear. You show up one Tuesday night and BAM, it's gone.

[captainron14]

Well, this is another way to "thin" the membership just as effectively as allowing openly Gay members.

Some of the major COs (ie churches, LDS, Catholic, etc.) would drop out in a second.

BSA would be a shadow of it's old self.

Comparing the GSUSAs unit structure to the BSA is comparing Apples and Oranges.

If you think BSA National policies are too rigid or objectionable, just wait to have even more control closer to a Dictatorship with a GSUSA type of organization.

With all of BSA's warts, I'll take it any day over that.

But those who like the concept of "Big Brother" would like having the "Party" instruct/enforce it's will on all of the units. Choosing who is the leadership, and I'm sure controlling unit funds would be a great bonus too.

Worrying about your equipment would be the least of your problems.

[evmori]

Paper CO here, too!

 

If the BSA gets away from the franchise method, then public schools & the armed forces & fire & police departments could be CO's again! I think it's a great idea! It would give more ownership to the unit & maybe make the units stronger!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Melgamatic]

We also have only a very thin relationship with our CO, a local church. The pack has been with them for 43 years, but we are just another group to them. We hold our meetings in the auditorium of one of our two feed elementary schools; the facility is much nicer than the church's low-ceiling auditorium.

 

Some of our dens have used the church for den meetings, but we usually get angry phone calls about various perceived problems with the way we left the classrooms or chalkboards, few to none of which were actually created by us.

 

We used to store our belongings in the basement, but don't do that because the Boy Scouts tend to shove our stuff to the side and cause damage. We keep our (nice! shiny! new!) PWD track underneath the stage, but that seems to be secure.

 

We don't really even have a CO Rep, although we recently realized that one of our committee members was a member of the church, so we signed him up.

 

Our finances are completely separate from the CO. I'm sure they don't even know we have finances.

 

Our pack seems to be running well, running steady at around 60-70 cubs and enough adults to fill the leadership positions. We manage to convince people to get trained, and we have 6 or 7 parents who are extremely active and make things work. I am not sure what our CO could contribute. What are we missing?

 

Unlike my scout troop from my youth, which was associated with my church and had tons of scouts who were associated with the church, we have only one actual cub whose family is a member of our CO. I sometimes wonder why they bother, but we don't cause them any issues and we do have 42 years of momentum.

 

Oh, we also put their name on our parade float, and since the Memorial Day parade route goes past the church the members like seeing us!

 

-Dave

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

One of the things this thread does point out is the lack of understanding of the CO's role in scouting, that may be another topic, aside from whether or not we need CO's.

[vol_scouter]

I think that the CO's provide meeting resources that would be difficult to replace. Often the disinterest is better than meddling in unit affairs. Due to the DRP, many other potential meeting places could be off limits. With the draconian requirements for consumer checks on all members, the BSA would certainly mot like the idea of units meeting in homes. Also, the Troops get exposure on Scout Sunday that improves positive visibility and community involvement. I am afraid that the short term effect would be a largely negative one.

[BadenP]

Interesting concept however with the constant changeover of leadership in any unit the CO provides the only stable entity/authority to deal with things such as unfit leadership, embezelling money or equipment, etc. If, for example, a scoutmaster becomes responsible for contracting with the council and then resigns who can the council really legally hold responsible, at least the CO,for the most part, provides a legally established organization.

 

I agree that without the CO scouting membership would take a sharp decline and that is one situation the BSA can not afford to allow to happen.

[scoutldr]

"First you will need to get rid of all the lawyers" Well, that's a good start. (Sorry, Beavah! )

 

Our situation is very similar to Gern's except he gets a closet! I'm jealous! We have to rent a storage unit. Our CO even asked us not to turn on the heat in the winter because it cost them money.

 

I can see the pros and cons. Since the BSA can use to CO to shift liability, it probably won't change.

[Lisabob]

dunno vol_scouter, I've not yet been associated with a unit where the CO provided a meeting space. The two packs we were part of were chartered by a church and a PTO, and the troop my son is in is chartered by a service club, yet all three units met elsewhere. Two meet in public school buildings and a third has met at the local National Guard armory. Of those three, the church was the only one that even had a physical space where we could have met (in theory). But they didn't like having us in "their" building.

[captainron14]

Lisabob,

Most of the COs who are churches (Catholic, LDS, Methodist, and others) are very involved with the units that they sponsor. Many still sponsor multiple types of units (Pack & Troop, sometimes a Crew too)Between those three Churches, they sponsor almost 60 thousand units serving over 1 million youth. The majority of these provide both meeting space as well as leadership. Now I can not vouch for quality or quantity of the above but the units that I have been a part of or seen have a fairly strong relationship with their COs.

BTW the above mentioned COs are the largest sponsors in BSA (units & boys).

Take away the CO program you would effectively kill the BSA.