Leader application problem

[nldscout]

Acid Test,

 

I am still waiting for my answer. What did you lose in these supposed ID thefts, cause it looks to me like your blowing t his way oout of porportion, because from your 3 examples they are filled with may's or possibles.

[Acid Test]

Sorry nldscout, I missed your question. Essentially, I have not lost a thing to-date - I have been pretty fortunate that the stealing parties have not acted. Here are the three incidents:

 

On-line music store is hacked and a few thousand credit card numbers were stolen - mine was one of them. I found out about the hacking within a day of the event and immediately cancelled our cards. Our credit card company at this time offered some protection against fraud but we still would have had to pay for some of the charges. Other people were not as quick as us and ended up with a bunch of bad charges.

 

Wells Fargo "lost" some of their computer servers in transport from the US to overseas. On these computers were thousands of SSN and other confidential financial information. We received letters at home from Wells Fargo about the incident including an 800 number to call with questions. This is still an open issue.

 

We were out buying a piece of furniture from a store one evening and our credit card was denied. Furthermore, the sales agent said that Capital One was on the phone and wanted to speak with us. Turns out that there was a lock on our account because of suspicious activity. There were dozens of bad charges against our account by people in England and somewhere else in Europe but I forget where. The information leak was from Capital One who's system was hacked and confidential information stolen including my credit card number and SSN. We cancelled our account and new cards were issued. Capital One picked up the cost of the bad charges. This is still an open issue.

 

In both cases with credit cards, we had to go through the trouble of immediately transititioning accounts - there are purchases that didn't post against the old card when cancelled. Setting up auto-pays is also a pain.

 

With these learnings, I don't offer my SSN to those parties that don't absolutely require them like doctors, denists and utility companies. There is nothing I can do with my employer or the IRS since it is a requirement unless I don't want to work.

 

My aim is to minimize those that have it. Much like anything, it is managed risk.

[Gold Winger]

"What did you lose in these supposed ID thefts, cause it looks to me like your blowing t his way oout of porportion, because from your 3 examples they are filled with may's or possibles."

 

The world is filled with "mays" and "possibles." We lock our doors because someone may want to come in without our permission. We carry car insurance because we may be in an accident. Folks insist on waiting periods for gun purchases because the buyer may want to kill his wife. Others keep a gun in their nightstand because someone may break in and do them harm.

 

Security is the business of guarding against "mays" and "possibles."

 

In days of yore, Virginia used your SSN as your DL number. Made sense back then and people would have their DL number printed on their checks. That's no longer the case.

 

When I started college in 76, my student ID number was my SSN which was posted with grades all over the halls of the school. You don't see that anymore.

 

Tis better to err on the side of caution.

[evmori]

It's always better to err on the side of caution but when you are required to divulge your SSN to get a loan or credit card or become a member of an organization then you give it out! If you don't you don't get the credit card or the loan or the opportunity to become a member of an organization. If you know who has your information, you at least have an idea where your ID could be stolen from.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Horizon]

Interesting debate. I think it can be summed up this way:

 

Cost of requiring a SSN vs. Cost of letting someone slip through into the system.

 

Here is the response from AYSO regarding their requirement for SSN for all volunteers:

-----------------------

Why does AYSO need the SSN in the first place? AYSO is a national organization. We secure

criminal background reports by searching court documents in county jurisdictions all across the country. These jurisdictions use a variety of personal information to identify those convicted of crimes. Unfortunately, there is no consistency as to the information used from jurisdiction to jurisdiction to identify those convicted. The expert opinions we sought and received on the matter told us unequivocally that all this information including the SS# - was necessary to ensure the viability of the background information we secure. Collecting all this information serves AYSO on two fronts. First, the accuracy of the information we receive ensures that we exclude those with the highest potential for harm to our children, and, equally important, it helps us avoid excluding a good and valuable volunteer due to mistaken identity.

-----------------------------

[Gold Winger]

"Cost of requiring a SSN vs. Cost of letting someone slip through into the system."

 

That's a warm and fuzzy answer, goes along with "Better everyone should suffer so that I don't have to fret."

 

Here's the real question . . . how many have been rejected by any of these background checks? Another question, how many people slip into troops without being known by others in the the unit?

 

If someone who isn't/wasn't a parent of someone in the unit wants to be involved, you can be sure that he was already vetted by the pastor of the church that charters the unit, the CC who's know the guy for 20 years or someone. Sure, a "predator" may slip through the cracks but how likely is it that a convicted offender will apply to join any particular unit. It is the uncaught ones that we need to worry about.

 

In a country where the judicial system says, "Better 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man goes to prision" isn't invading everyone's privacy in an effort to catch one out of 100,000 a bit of hypocrisy?

 

 

[Acid Test]

Horizon wrote....

 

Interesting debate. I think it can be summed up this way:

 

Cost of requiring a SSN vs. Cost of letting someone slip through into the system.

 

Here is the response from AYSO regarding their requirement for SSN for all volunteers:

-----------------------

Why does AYSO need the SSN in the first place? AYSO is a national organization. We secure

criminal background reports by searching court documents in county jurisdictions all across the country. These jurisdictions use a variety of personal information to identify those convicted of crimes. Unfortunately, there is no consistency as to the information used from jurisdiction to jurisdiction to identify those convicted. The expert opinions we sought and received on the matter told us unequivocally that all this information including the SS# - was necessary to ensure the viability of the background information we secure. Collecting all this information serves AYSO on two fronts. First, the accuracy of the information we receive ensures that we exclude those with the highest potential for harm to our children, and, equally important, it helps us avoid excluding a good and valuable volunteer due to mistaken identity.

 

 

AYSO = American Youth Soccer Organization?

 

What you wrote is true but there are alternatives and better ones. Remember the FBI does background checks without a SSN. It can be done. Fingerprints is a better identifier than a SSN anyway since SSNs can be and have been stolen.

 

The BSA having this requirement is bad enough, but it is probably the easiest to administrate. What is completely unacceptable is they are also keeping your SSN for their records - my local council told me so when I offered to enter my SSN into the background search system at their location to avoid having my SSN on paperwork or on servers where it really isn't needed. They told me they will still keep it in their files and on their computer system because they are required to. Eventhough the background search is complete!!

[Acid Test]

At this point, I would like to see some other organization (not the BSA) get the crap sued out of them because they didn't secure SSN's. The more wide known and public, the better. Maybe other organizations would learn from the event and evaluate their own policies.

[Gold Winger]

" They told me they will still keep it in their files and on their computer system because they are required to."

 

Required by whom? BSA? FBI? ChoicePoint?

[Acid Test]

Not sure whether it was a local council requirement or the national council making this requirement. I think the local registrar was getting upset with me at that point and stated she was still required to keep my SSN in their system and on my application when I offered to enter my SSN into the background check system directly.

[Gold Winger]

Makes you wonder what they are going to do with it, doesn't it?

 

 

[Acid Test]

It may be to do periodic checks in the future.

[evmori]

The FBI does background checks without asking for your SSN number because they can get it without asking! Do you really think they won't do a thorough check?

[Gold Winger]

"The FBI does background checks without asking for your SSN number because they can get it without asking!"

 

I think that you've been watching too much TV.

 

 

[evmori]

I don't actually watch much TV except for sports. And if you really think the FBI doesn't have your SSN then I got a bridge to sell ya!

 

Fingerprints are great to identify someone. But not everyone's are on file to be checked! And usually if they are, the reason isn't a good one!