Leader application problem

[Gold Winger]

" but what your gun dealer requires has no bearing on what BSA requires."

 

It's not what the gun dealer requires, the dealer doesn't do the check. It's what the FBI requires. The point is that check can be done without the SSN.

 

"Heck to get a CPA, you have to give a finger print; at least BSA isn't requiring that."

 

To get an FFL, I had to give all ten prints. To get my DoD and DoE clearances, I had to give all ten prints. To get cleared to work with kids as a sports official, I had to give all ten prints. The difference is that those were given to government agencies with statutory authority to request my SSN and have policies and procedures in place to protect my information.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[Gold Winger]

Ed, have you ever found out that you have a credit card that you didn't open? It isn't a nice feeling.

[Acid Test]

In response to Ed's responses...

There is a difference between protecting something and hiding something. Just because someone is trying to protect doesn't mean they are trying to hide. Somebody who is wanting to protect their SSN from theft doesn't mean they have something in their backgrounds to hide. This assumption is childness. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[cjlaird]

I suspect the BSA is being somewhat reactionary in demanding that their adult volunteers supply an SSN for background checks. And, quite frankly, I suppose it could be argued that it's at least in part due to the fact that the Wichita KS Quivira Council BSA suddenly had a major moral and legal embarrassment a while back when the BTK serial killer was caught and found to be an actively participating Boy Scout leader in the Wichita area who did a lot of camping with the boys and other leaders.

 

Of course, Dennis Rader looked just like your regular guy on the street, and he had the "innocent" persona down pat: well thought of in the community, family man, city employee with a good service record, church deacon and pastor's assistant, several years in BSA as a leader. I actually met Rader at a couple of campouts before anyone found out what he'd done - he had a kind of creepy way about him, but no more than any other dedicated lecher I've met. So when it was discovered this mild-looking guy, who was a BSA member with a supposedly sterling reputation, also happened to have a 30-odd-year history of killing people for sport, somebody (or perhaps a lot of somebodies) in the BSA went blinking ballistic, as did the general public, and the law enforcement services in that area, and the press.

 

Personally, I don't agree with the demand for SSN. I know what it is to go through an honest-to-God background check. I did it for the USN/R because of my work at that time, and believe me, they checked everything I ever did practically from the day I was born. A REAL background check doesn't depend on looking up anybody's SSN... it involves looking up people's "nether regions" and every single other aspect of their lives to make sure there aren't any skeletons in the closet.

 

A SSN check won't weed out the crazies, it won't show a valid picture of who has good or bad credit ratings (the credit bureaus are unbelievably screwed up), it won't show who has the ability to be a good or bad leader, and it sure as heck won't prove the person applying for BSA membership is the actual person whose name appears on the Social Security card. There are other ways to check a person's background, but BSA has apparently gotten stuck on the misguided idea that demanding an SSN will solve all their alleged problems and help keep their slates clean.

 

If they want my SSN, fine; if they don't want it, fine. I don't particularly care one way or the other about letting them have it. I don't suppose anyone wants to be me anyway - my credit score sucks serious donkey butt. With or without my SSN, BSA won't find anything the FBI didn't find back in 1980 when I joined the Navy Reserves intelligence community, and I'm basically the same now as I was then: a female who's not interested at all in guys younger than myself, who doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, doesn't take drugs other than antihistamines and aspirin, and doesn't party. I've never done anything I knew to be illegal, and the one time I did something I discovered later was wrong, I quit doing it.

 

I used to go to campouts for the purpose of getting the boys to their destination, and while there I spent my time reading or doing needlework while holding down the campsite so the kids could go to their activities. Occasionally, I drove someone up to the lodge office for first aid, or ran errands for the other leaders. I'm just a boring gal who just enjoys going to watch the youngsters learn something new & figure out how to put it into use, and make notes about it to remind myself to put it into their records when we get back.

 

In my opinion, regardless of what anyone else thinks, I believe that if BSA wants to enforce the SSN demand, in light of people's very valid concerns about identity theft and with respect to the fact that most BSA offices and computer systems are not exactly secure enough to keep such information private, then BSA is the entity that will wind up suffering when people put their collective foot down and say "no" to the idea of giving up their SSN in order to be a leader of committee member. It will be BSA's loss - and ultimately the boys' loss - because this policy will not only serve no useful purpose, it will drive away the very people they need so desperately to help make the program run right.

[evmori]

GW,

 

No I haven't.

 

I know what charges I have made on my cards. If I see one that I don't know about, I contact the card company & have it investigated. Since I have been in the lending industry for almost 30 years, I keep tabs on my credit. The only thing that ever popped up on my credit report that wasn't mine was a GMAC car loan that was reported in error.

 

Acid Test,

 

I am no troll. Never have been. Never will be. I've be in these forums for a long time. I've been involved in Scouting for over 20 years! What is childness?

 

Maybe thinking someone who won't divulge their SSN number has something to hide isn't accurate, but when you go to buy that new flat screen on credit, I'll bet ya don't blink when the clerk at Best Buy asks for your SSN to process the application. And where do you think it is more likely to have your ID stolen - Best Buy or the BSA?

 

Happy Father's Day!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Acid Test]

Ed,

 

No thank you.

[vol_scouter]

Everyone keeps talking about the BSA asking for a Criminal Background Check - that is NOT what you agree to on the online site!! You agree to a CONSUMER check. What does that have to do with finding criminals??? The website says that the check is a CBC only but they make a point of you agreeing to a CONSUMER check. A poster on another list had their credit checked during the process of obtaining a loan which increased toe interest rate that they had to pay! So there is an issue of being Trustworthy. Can anyone supply a cogent reason why the BSA needs a consumer check rather than a CBC?

 

For Ed, I have as many years in the BSA as do you. On top of that, I am an Eagle scout. I have nothing to hide. If a business asks for a SSN, I do not do business with them unless the SSN is required by the Federal government.

 

Finally, once again the BTK killer is a great reason NOT to do a CBC. He had a clean record before his arrest! Most of the crimes currently found in the BSA are perpetrated by people with a clean CBC.

[skeptic]

     You know folks, a lot of you are making this out to be some kind of huge conspiracy, or simply playing the "fear" card. Reality is that this requirement, while perhaps not absolutely necessary, is highly unlikely to contribute to identity theft; and frankly, most of you have very likely given out more than enough information somewhere else should someone really want to make you a victim.

     If you have read some of the past nightmares within the BSA in regard to these issues, you know that there have been numerous individuals who were on record in one state and simply moved to another, sometimes more than once. If this procedure roots out even one individual hiding in the shadows, it has done its job. And, as someone already noted, every protective measure we can put in place serves to make the predators less likely to choose BSA as their harvesting locale. 

     I, for one, will do whatever is necessary to reinforce the youth protection umbrella. If they want my fingerprints, they can have them. But, I also will continue to monitor credit reports and be vigilent for my own protection. If it happens, I am fairly confident it will have come from some other source than BSA.

[evmori]

vol_scouter,

 

You have never applied for a loan or a credit card through a bank or credit card company? They might be regulated by the government but their requirements for credit are theirs. Must be nice to be so liquid.

 

Acid Test,

 

No thank you to what?

 

skeptic,

Right on the money! The fear card rears it's ugly head!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Gold Winger]

The last time that I applied for credit at a store, I typed my own SSN into a console and the clerk never saw it.

 

"Can anyone supply a cogent reason why the BSA needs a consumer check rather than a CBC?"

 

Probably costs less.

 

 

[evmori]

The last time that I applied for credit at a store, I typed my own SSN into a console and the clerk never saw it.

 

And ya don't think it's on the credit report in your file? And how about when you get a loan at a bank or finance company or car dealer?

[Acid Test]

evmori wrote...

 

Acid Test,

 

No thank you to what?

 

 

No thank you I will not participate in your obvious attempts to troll. Sorry, you will have to get your troll satsifaction from some other thread or from someone else.

[Acid Test]

evmori wrote...

 

Acid Test,

 

No thank you to what?

 

 

No thank you I will not participate in your obvious attempts to troll. Sorry, you will have to get your troll satsifaction from some other thread or from someone else.

[Acid Test]

skeptic wrote....

 

You know folks, a lot of you are making this out to be some kind of huge conspiracy, or simply playing the "fear" card. Reality is that this requirement, while perhaps not absolutely necessary, is highly unlikely to contribute to identity theft; and frankly, most of you have very likely given out more than enough information somewhere else should someone really want to make you a victim.

 

 

The issue is that the risk is largely unknown since the BSA is keeping our SSN on file and within their computers, at least at the local council level and perhaps at the national level - doesn't matter since they are all networked anyway. You would hope that they would just enter your number into the background search program, but they are also keeping it elsewhere - this was confirmed by the BSA when I asked the question.

 

Additionally I don't know how good the BSA's computer security is - do they have a group of IT folks that are competent enough to have the systems secure? As an employee of a large organization that interacts with IT folks, I can tell you from our conversations that they track the number of times there are attempts to penetrate the company's computer systems. The numbers would surprise you with most being from overseas.

 

The BSA is a prime target for US attacks because of their positions on sensitive current events. But unless someone here knows somebody who works for the BSA's IT group or who they contract it to, we will not know.

 

As far as fingerprinting, I offered this as an alternative to providing a SSN and they said no. I even offered to pay for it but the BSA is insisting on a SSN and that is it.

 

 

[evmori]

You have no clue how secure any computer is! Yet when you apply for a loan you willingly divulge your SSN number! Why? Because it's a requirement! It's a requirement for the BSA, too!

 

There are many groups & organizations who are prime for attacks from hackers & ID thieves! The BSA might be one of the. So might the company you work for. Are you going to crawl in a hole & not participate in life because someone might steal your ID? Fear mongering is just as dangerous!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10