Leader application problem

[GernBlansten]

If I beat the dead horse the right way, it might move.

 

Here's the rub. What if BSA is only doing a consumer check and not a criminal background check? Seems some people here think that is the case. Is that keeping our kids safe? Perhaps from bad debtors, but not convicted child molestors. And why even do the credit check to begin with? It has nothing to do with my position as a voluntary assistant scout master. I don't like anyone snooping up my skirt even though I do wear clean underwear.

[Horizon]

Consumer Check using SSN: Reveals all of the permutations of your name, all addresses, and any significant debt issues that might mean that you should not be the troop treasurer. The name and address variants help in running the subsequent criminal check.

 

Fingerprint scans are nice, but far from the 5 minute check that they show on TV. You can get a lot more information on people if you have a unique indentifier, and that is what the SSN has become. We might not like it, but we are now better identified by our SSN than by our actual name.

 

I will also state again that the BSA is far from unique in requesting this information. A quick Google finds a bill in Ohio requiring SSN based background checks for camp counselors, a .pdf application form for an earth day event requiring SSN for background checks for all parents attending, and many others.

 

I will restate that the American Youth Soccer Association requires SSN for the background check. Little League leaves it up to the district, but emphasizes on their website that name only search criteria limits the databases that can be checked. Middle name / initial variations can result in both false positives AND false negatives. They also do not catch it if you have changed your name. The SSN catches that.

 

http://www.littleleague.org/programs/childprotect/states.asp

"The search done on ChoicePoint limits the name-only search to sex offender registries in 10 states, while providing a far more thorough check that includes criminal records not found on a SOR, and utilizes the birth date and Social Security Number (when provided) to screen in additional databases. When positive results are returned in these states with name-only searches through the sex offender registry search, you are required to perform more research to determine whether the results belong to your candidate."

 

I would be interested in knowing how many adult volunteers are rejected by the BSA each year due to information found during the background check.

[evmori]

Thank you Horizon for elaborating on the point I have been trying to get across! The check needs to be thorough and to do that, a SSN is necessary. If ya don't want to give it out, ya can't be a leader! And ya can't work at Acid Test's POE, either.

 

Ed "I'm Not a Troll" Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Gold Winger]

Really have to wonder what is going to happen with all of this information that ChoicePoint is gathering on us. Background information, bank information. How soon before they start selling lists of who has how much money?

 

I don't like it and I don't think that it's going to do a darned thing for the security of BSA. I also don't like the SSN having become our national identity number although colleges and the insurance industry has moved away from that.

 

Those who would exchange freedom for security deserve neither.

 

 

[evmori]

Your SSN has been the main ID number for decades! It wasn't until the last 10 years ID theft became a problem! Colleges & insurance companies still use it, they just give you another ID number which is usually an algorithm of your SSN!

 

 

[Acid Test]

Horizon:

 

I wouldn't dispute whether or not a SSN is a solid way of performing a background check or whether many organizations and employers use it for this purpose.

 

What is questionable is whether or not there are reasonable alternatives that avoid a BSA adult applicant from having to use a SSN when completing his/her BSA application. Reading through the several pages of previous posts reveals several - some still require a SSN but eliminates the need of having the number in BSA files or on BSA databases where the information has the potential of being compromised.

 

As far as the AYSO, they are offering alternatives to providing your SSN to the local staff by allowing the applicant to enter their SSN on-line which is then XXX'd out on the printed application. I have a link to the site if you are interested.

 

Additionally, some local AYSO organizations are allowing applicants to submit an FBI fingerprint and back ground application instead of providing SSN's to the local AYSO. Again, I have a link if you are interested.

 

There is very good information found at: http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs16d-VolunteerScreening.htm

 

There is a lot of information for the applicant which includes what to require from the searching organization. In my opinion, the BSA policies for background checks fail to satisfy several recommendations.

 

For those who are not convinced that thread is a bunch of crap, here is an interesting cut/paste from the site:

 

 

Why are volunteers worried about privacy?

 

To begin with, background screening involves gathering information about an individual. The process starts with the collection of personal data such as name, address, telephone number, present and past addresses, and Social Security number. In these days of identity theft, it is common sense to protect your personal information. Sharing your Social Security number itself defies core advice for preventing identity theft.

 

Questions may also arise about the amount and kinds of information covered in the background check. Does the information to be collected relate to the job? For example, should an organization routinely ask its volunteers to agree to a credit check or a Department of Motor Vehicles check when the job requires neither money handling nor driving?

 

Data security is another major concern, with questions often left unanswered when volunteers are asked to submit to background screening. Volunteers have a legitimate right to know that personal information will be secure, either with online encryption systems or in locked file cabinets.

 

 

 

 

[Horizon]

Acid:

 

I don't consider this thread to be crap (your words) - it is an important debate. Privacy concerns are legitimate, as is the issue of indentity theft. Of course, your SSN and all financial data is already held by the big 3 reporting agencies. Your criminal record is public information. If you donate to political causes in excess of $200 that is public information. Your voting registration is public information.

 

What I am NOT seeing, however, is a guarantee that a non-SSN based criminal background check will be sufficiently in-depth to protect our kids. I have posted repeatedly WHY and HOW the SSN provides better data access than just name and birthdate.

 

As for AYSO - that is new to me that they are allowing volunteers to bypass the SSN requirement. I agree that an FBI run background check should be an appropriate replacement, and would support that proposal (cost borne by the volunteer and not the region, and it must be redone annually). It IS true that to volunteer for AYSO you can provide your SSN online through the eAYSO interface, so that your number is not on file at your region. In my region that is the ONLY way we take volunteers, since I am the one in charge of our background checks as the CVPA. I don't like having to keep hundreds of SSNs in my safe, and I do not.

 

I think that BSA should implement an on-line volunteer registration system and dispense with the paperwork. It will STILL take an SSN, however, to run a complete automated background check.

[Bob White]

What simpler unique identifier other than your SSN can you think of to make sure that when you, John Doe, apply to be a scout leader, that you are not confused with John Doe who was arrested for a violent crime in Puff Bluff Arkansas 10 years ago?

 

Is it perfect? No, but at the moment it is the most available, and least expensive way to crosscheck an indiviual unique identifier.

 

Is it a personal risk, yes, but certainly not as great a risk as parents take when they voluntarily send their child off for a weekend with someone whose background has not been checked and approved by the BSA.

 

I do not blame you for your caution, nor do I fault the BSA for theirs. But since this is their house that you want to come into then you need to play by their rules, or just agree to part ways with no hard feelings on either side.

 

 

[scoutmomma]

I was always under the impression that it was illegal for non-government agencies to require the use of the Social Security Number, but when I did some further digging, I learned that the waters have certainly been a bit muddied over time, between concerns about privacy rights and post-9/11 concerns, among other things:

 

http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/ssnchron.html

 

But that doesn't mean that requests for SSNs should be considered routine:

 

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs10a-SSNFAQ.htm

 

And, finally, the Social Security Administration itself has this to say about requests for SSNs:

 

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10002.html#protect

[FScouter]

If anyone would like to discuss "forum moderation", feel free to start a new topic.

Frank (FScouter)

forum moderator team member

[packsaddle]

Since I see you took the fickle finger of deletion approach...your wish is my command.

 

Edited part: New topic created, TTFN(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Gold Winger]

Hey! My moderation has been moderated. Wow! Talk about immoderate moderation.

 

I bet this will be moderated too.

[evmori]

OK. Already posted in the "new" topic! Gotta wonder what's going on, though.