Professional career consideration

[shortridge]

A question for everyone out there, professionals and volunteers alike: What advice would you give to a former Scout considering a career in the 'pro' ranks?

 

I'm not looking for advice on how to do a good job vis-a-vis volunteers and Scouts - that seems to have been covered many times in other threads - but in other words: What questions should they ask of themselves? What sacrifices should they be prepared to make? Is it possible to have no fundraising experience and do a good job as an entry-level DE? Is it possible to have a personal and family life and do a good job? Assuming good job performance, is it possible to stay in one district for several years for family stability, or do good DEs get bumped up and out quickly?

[bkale]

I am very glad you are asking this question.

 

I have often considered a "pro" job but unfortunately could not make ends meet on the DE salary.... but... it would be great to hear some of the inside points.

[scoutldr]

You are going to work many long hours for scant reward, including most evenings and weekends. If you have a family, are they OK with that?

[Tokala]

I considered it years ago, actually decades, when I was looking at going to college. The one thing that has prevented me from even pondering a professional Scouting job is, it would take all of the fun out of Scouting. Something that I do because I enjoy it would suddenly be an occupation where Scouting would turn into a game of numbers. How much money can you raise? Did you gain or lose units? Did you gain or lose membership? And so on.

 

If you do it, I'd definitely apply in councils that you do not have any connections.

[Bob White]

Different people have different callings. If you are looking to work in the field of non-profit administration it can have many personal rewards and at the mid to upper levels you can, in many communities, make a good salary. It is as honest and worthwhile profession as any other.

 

The important thing to understand, especially if you are coming from a youth membership or unit leader perspective, is that it is not about planning a youth program. It is for the most part about administrating the corporation that develops and maintains the resources for the units.

 

The profession of scouting is about keeping the council growing in money, manpower, and membership. Having good unit meetings and outings is the responsibility of volunteers at unit local and national levels. The job of the professional is to manage the business end of scouting so that units can focus on program.

 

 

 

[BadenP]

After almost five years as a professional in charge of two large districts, staff advisor for the OA and JLT and ass't camp manager there were some awesome experiences and rewards.

 

However I put in 80 + hours per week days, evenings and weekends and was never home. The job almost caused me to lose my wife and family and finally I had to reset my priorities and give up the profession. If you are single it would be great for a while but if you want to have a life outside of scouting stay a volunteer.

[Beavah]

Yah, there's functional and dysfunctional councils out there, shortridge.

 

In da functional councils, it's a hard job. In da dysfunctional councils it's an impossible job.

 

It's possible to have no fundraisin' experience when yeh come in, as long as you have a good "people personality" and such. If you have been successful in sales of any kind, that should be a good indicator. Then make formal trainin' in NFP development a condition of your employment. Make da council pay for a couple full-semester classes on institutional development for you, and get da release time. It's a trade yeh have to learn, and BSA doesn't teach it all that well.

 

Never, ever take a DE job in a weak district. Da evaluation metrics and timetable are such that you'll get shafted. District health takes a lot of time to build, and is very strongly associated with demographics that you have no control over. Seek out and accept jobs only in districts that have easily made their performance goals for many years. Don't believe SE's on that, either. Dig into it yourself, in detail.

 

It's certainly possible to stay in a DE job for many years, and slowly move up to senior DE or DD, or even FD. But dat's often the "slow promotion/slow salary growth" route, eh? Yeh just have to balance your priorities. I think BadenP is spot on when he says it's an evening and weekends and odd-hours job, eh? That can be tough on a family. At very least, push to make compensatory time clear in your contract or an attached memorandum of agreement.

 

Find an SE who da secretarial/office staff really likes, and who has also "topped out" and is likely to stay around for a while. Yeh want a good boss, and da office staff knows best.

 

Keep to an exercise plan. As an odd-hours, semi-stressful job that involves a lot of meetings with people (with food!), I've seen DE's put on a lot of weight, eh?

 

And finally, decide before you enter what your ethics and morals are, and resolve never to violate 'em, no matter what da pressure, or tolerate others in da professional ranks who do. Never fudge a number or pad a statistic, never misrepresent at an FOS presentation, never blame a volunteer, and never, ever tolerate anyone who shouldn't be around kids. We've had too much of all of that, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger]

Be prepared . . . to move. As I understand it, advancement usually requires a transfer to a new council.

[Eagle92]

DON'T DO IT!!!!!! LOL.

Seriously though Beavah and BadenP offer great advice. Other advice I suggest is talk to the volunteers in the district, if given the opportunity, during the interview process, and also talk to professionals you know and respect about possible council you will be interviewing with.

 

I say talk to the volunteers because 1) they know the territory, 2) will tell you up front what is right and what is wrong in the district, and 3)may give you subtle hints as to the situation you are getting into. First interview I went on was the council business meeting in a small, but very well involved council. had lunch with several dist. committee members and had a real good time. Lost out to a local Scouter who had left to join the Army, go to college and came back home. Me him in PDL1 and was real jealous of his situation.

 

SEs and DFSs gain reputations in the professional community. Had I known what I was getting I would not have taken the offer. My SE and DFS did NOT have good reputations, to the point that at the 98 NLTC a SE I interviewed with told me to "watch your back" with the DFS. Also when at PDL1, whenever I was asked what council I was from, the folks were like "oh XYZ's council." If I had talked to some of my professional friends a little more, I would have been told "yeah I here there are some issue there," " there have been a lot of new DEs there recently," and my personal favorite "Oh s$%!, stay the h3!! away from there."

 

It is a challenge and demanding job, especially on the family. I left the DE position and went to supply division because my wife did threaten to divorce me, and we were only married three months, and knew what the job entailed becuase we dated the entire time I was in the job. One of my coworkers was divorced for three times because of the job, and another DE's wife I knew walked out on him.

 

[John-in-KC]

I've seen my professionals three times in the past two weeks:

 

1) Roundtable night, 7-9 PM or so.

 

2) District Commish meeting, 7-9 PM or so.

 

3) Back to School Night (major recruitment window) and District Committee meeting, they didn't stop from 3 PM when they showed up from Council offices until after Committee ended 9ish PM.

 

In addition to my school district, two other area districts started this week, and 3 more start next week. Professionals will be on hand for all of those.

 

Worked FOS call bank this spring. 4 separate nights, all 3 professionals working 6PM to 9PM and after.

 

Folks are not kidding when the recommend you evaluate the time commitment. As a unit serving DE, you are sales on salary. You and your family need to understand the time and energy commitment to get out of the starting blocks.

 

I have enormous respect for my 3 professionals. They work very hard. I'm convinced one will have a Council of his own, if he decides he wants to move.

 

One volunteer's perspective

[NeilLup]

From my friends who are pros, comes the following counsel:

 

1) You will not be working directly with youth except in very rare circumstances

2) Your job will not be primarily working program except in very rare circumstances

3) Your job will largely be working through, recruiting, motivating volunteers unless you have one of the SEs who don't believe in volunteers. Then you will be doing everything yourself or with other pros.

4) You may find that you are doing the less glamorous, less "fun" aspects of Scouting. The pros have a saying "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, if the volunteer won't do it, the professional must."

5) You will be doing a lot of selling and selling related activities -- fund raising, recruiting, etc. If you don't groove on selling, you won't be having fun.

 

But I know a number of great people who are great pros and are very happy doing it. At one time, my wife and I realized that there are somewhat similar personality types that go into "calling" type vocations -- the clergy, the military and professional Scouting

 

If you are interested, give it a try. Something like half or more new DEs leave the profession pretty quickly. Many of those return to Scouting as volunteers. No harm, no foul. It's not for them and it's good training. If you like it, you stay. One of our Council VPs is a former pro. Another district training chairman in our council is a former pro. He got the Silver Beaver last year.

[Eagle92]

Here are some answers for you:

Is it possible to have no fundraising experience and do a good job as an entry-level DE?

 

Yes but you really need to pay attention at PDL-1 and pray you have a wiz of a FOS chairman. I lucked out in that my FOS chair knew ever business leader and wealthy individual in my district. He came from old money, had a family business and was a pillar in the community.

 

 

Is it possible to have a personal and family life and do a good job?

 

In my opinion not really. It is a very demanding job with little family time because you are working nites when most people are home with their families. And if you are unfortunate to get a jerk of a boss, there will be problems. For example my boss rearranged my summer schedule prior to my wedding. So instead of doing my shift at summer camp before my wedding, I had to be at camp the week after I got married. To make matters worse, he didn't tell the camp director about the change. So I my absence that week almost canceled a sea base expedition, and when I did show up there was nothing for me to do, but I couldn't go home.

 

 

Assuming good job performance, is it possible to stay in one district for several years for family stability, or do good DEs get bumped up and out quickly?

 

Depends on the SE. Usually good DEs stay in a spot from 3-5 years and then move on. Occassionally you have folks who cannot leave the area due to spouse's job. Eventually they do get promoted, but not as fast as they should. It too my FD 12 years to get in that position because his wife had her own medical practice. A good friend of mine got a FD spot after 5 years because he was able to move.

 

If you are interested in working for the BSA and don't want as many headache's, try Supply division. It is harder to get into management because someone has to die or retire to get into a position, but it is mostly a 9-6 job with some night and weekend work. You usually have to start out as a clerk, unless you have some connections, but once you get into management, it is not nearly as bad as being a DE.

[Kahuna]

Good advice all around. As a former professional, I found that long hours, low pay and disfunctional bosses were only part of the problem. Mainly, what I liked about Scouting was troop work, training, merit badge counseling and that kind of stuff. Professionals almost never do anything like that.

 

I would say that many professionals have very happy family lives. Your wife just has to be on board with the whole thing. I would also point out that it isn't necessary to work 80 hours a week in most cases. Generally, you don't have to maintain office hours, so you have to schedule personal time for exercise and social contacts right in there along with roundtables, district committee meetings, etc, etc.

[Eagle92]

In addition to all the above negative aspects, there are a bunch of positive aspects.

 

1) Really making friends and working with the volunteers, especially if they view you as a "real scout

leader." Best impression I ever made with some volunteers was when I was at an Ordeal and busting my

butt in the mud to prepare for the ceremony that nite, since I did ceremonies as a youth and love working with ceremonialists. Some of the volunteers in my district thought I was hiding and sleeping somewhere as they did not know where i went off to. When I showed up in muddied, wet, cammies from busting butt, the first words out of the adult I've been working with to the rest of the group was "We got ourselves a real scout leader." and proceeds to tell them everything I did. What really got them on my side was a few minutes later some council level scouter in a spotless uniform whom I didn't know comes in, looks at me and said scornfully "been sleeping in the mud?" to which I replied "In my old lodge a clean Arrowman is considered a lazy Arrowman." and I had my volunteers rolling on the floor laughing.

 

2)Recruiiting and starting new untis as very fun as I go to see the lookon the faces as people got introduced to the program. I had experienced an especially great pleasure in starting a minority unit in a very under served segment of the population. Working with the leaders, helping them to recruit members, getting sponsors, and seeing them at camp where I introduced them to one of my troop's traditions was an awesome experience.

 

You must weigh the benefits and costs.

[John-in-KC]

One other note:

 

One of the best volunteers I've ever known is the Director of Support Services for my Council. His boys all went through the program. In his Troop, he was asked to be SM and was superb at it!

 

Next year, one of our Reservation Directors starts his boy into Tigers!