whos in charge??

[dpicarelli]

If you have a problem with your scout executive who do you go to next?

[Crew21_Adv]

dpicarelli,

 

 

Greetings!

 

Difficult question.

 

As I understand. Each Council is independent, which purchase the rights to the BSA program from National. There are Regions which are established to aid in managing the program.

 

Depending on what the issue is. I would ask to address the Council Executive Committee, or specifically the Council Key Three (one being the Scout Executive, but the other two being the Council Commissioner and the Council President). The Executive Committee has some power to resolve issues at the unit, district, and council level.

 

If you really feel that you must go up one more level to discuss an issue. There are program managers and Area Directors at the Regional level. If you google either Western (Central, Northeastern, or Sourthern) Region BSA, you will find their webpages. You should be able to find contact "receptionist" telephone numbers and ask to speak to your Council's area director.

 

Hopefully you can resolve your problem at the lowest level with minimal impact to the program and your Scouts.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[scoutldr]

Just one word of real-world advice, though. IN some councils, the Executive Board members are hand picked by the SE and it's hard to discern who works for whom. After all, the EB members are volunteers and most are not looking for a lot of strife and stress. You may not find a sympathetic ear, and you could find yourself being black-balled. If you could give a clue as to what your issue is, perhaps we could be more helpful.

[Bob White]

It depends. There are several options depending on the problem. Can you be a little more specific?

[dpicarelli]

I will not go into a lot of detail....I could fill a book. I was asked to take over a cubscout pack.It was being mismanaged by a husband and wife team main issue was missing funds. I stepped up as cubmaster. The 14 webelos that crossed over did not stay with our charter because the husband ran the boyscouts. So they got a new charter and our 4 webelos are not staying because of the bad blood. I just recently resigned as cubmaster so I could become scout master to stop the insanity at the request of our charter executive officer. These people are like parasites they move from charter to charter and from pack to troop and leave the places dessimated and charters revoked. The wife has been arrested for stealing from church envelopes over $3,000.00 I have the arrest report fact not fiction or gossip. Every parent who has complained to council executive officer was told "only the charter can remove them" so..now the charter has removed them. Parents have complained to council about foul language, missing money, camping trips that consist of playing nintendo for a weekend in a friends cabin. When I complained and showed them the arrest report I was told "If the charter org is OK with them there is nothing we can do" I feel this is gross negligence on the councils behalf and if these parents have their way not only our the husband and wife going to get sued so is the council. they already dropped off the old books to the police and requested a formal investigation.

I personally feel council dropped the ball on this and should not have let these people go on in leadership positions based on past performance. as far as the arrest goes I was told "they joined prior to the new adult applications where we do a criminal background and until they quit and rejoin there is nothing we can do"

I feel there is something SOMEONE can do.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

So, are you in Florida? dont say where, just yes or no

[Bob White]

Thank you for the additional information. It was enough to be able to give you accurate information.

 

You are incorrect in placing the problem or the solution on the local Council scout executive. You were given accurate information, this was not his responsibility.

 

The Scout unit and the leaders belong to the charter organization.

 

The leaders were approved and selected by the charter organization.

 

The money taken belonged to the charter organization.

 

If you wish to see charges brought against these volunteers then the charter organization is going to have to file the charges because the Council and the BSAa were not the ones they stole from.

 

If you wish to see the volunteers removed from the unit then all the charter organization has to do is remove them (you as the unit leader do not have the authority.) It would need to be done by the institution head, charter rep, or committee chair. Then they inform the scout executive of their action.

 

After the charter organization files charges if the volunteers are found guilty of the crime then you can inform the council of the conviction and the BSA will consider permanently barring them from membership.

 

Your charter organization has complete control and authority over this situation. You are not correct in believing that the the Scout executive has done anything improper in this situation and so it would not be appropritae to guide you to anothe level of administration when it is your charter organization that was responsible for taking action.

 

I hope the situation will improve soon for your scouts.

 

BW

 

[dpicarelli]

no

 

[dpicarelli]

Mr. White,

If your information is correct than there is a problem with the whole organization.If you know people are trouble and have had complaints about them and they cost scouts their charters at different churches civic centers etc and do nothing THAT is a problem and not very scout like

[Bob White]

The charter concept which gives ownership and responsibility to the charter organization has existed since 1916. It is not a secret among any adult leader who has taken basic training.

 

I am unsure what you wnat the Council executive to do? Remove the leader? The leader was selected and approved by the charter organization not by the council executive. If the Charter organization doesn't what them then THEY can remove them from their unit.

 

You want the scout exec to go after the thieves? He is not a police officer. He was not the person who was robbed so he has no legal standing to press charges. The CO was robbed so the CO is required to press the charges. This is not a BSA rule, this is the law of your community.

 

What exactly do want the scout executive to do for the unit that the unit is not already authorized to do?

 

I am sorry but you do not need to know how to go after the scout executive, what you need is a better understanding of the role of the charter organization. You need to attend basic scout leader training.

 

 

[dpicarelli]

Mr. White 2 quick points

First your assumption that I did not go to training is very arrogant.

second Maybe I am not explaining myself clearly so I will try to simplify it even further.

There is a set of scout executives and council committee that have been negligent in their duties by allowing certain individuals to ruin 2 scouting programs in thier council region almost a third and to let them move onto a fourth in under 4 years. They have an obligation both as a BSA council and morally as individuals to at the very least warn these charters about their past performance. I never once asked them to be the police or bring charges please re read my post I clearly state the parents turned the evidence over to the police. I am trying to keep the council from being sued the parents have hired a lawyer to sue them civily and the laywer is suggesting to sue the council for allowing this "con" to go on. and just in case you are not up to date on law, this is not criminal you don't need all 12 jury members to say guilty you just need one more than half and depending on the amount it will go in front of a single magestrate and when you have 2 priest a reverand and a deacon on the witness stand saying council never told us of these past problems guess who doesn't look so good now do you see the point i am trying to make probably not but it is a free country open to all opinions, so I still welcome yours

[scoutldr]

YOu state that the offenders were "arrested" for embezzlement. I would think that, if CONVICTED, their membership in the BSA would be revoked by the council. I would expect no less. As Americans, we are all innocent until convicted.

 

As others have tried to explain, the Unit belongs to the Chartering Organization (CO), not the Council. If the adult applications are approved by the CO, and the background checks come back clear, there is no reason for the SE to act.

[Aquila calva]

Dear dpicarelli,

 

Welcome to these forums. And thank you for volunteering to help your pack and troop.

 

Since the issues you describe are now in the hands of the police, and a lawyer is involved, it sounds like the matters will eventually be worked out.

 

The chartering organization structure has many good qualities and it has its challenging qualities, too. Local control usually works pretty well when all the responsible people are pulling in the same direction. Unfortunately, a couple of bad apples can really spoil the whole basket.

 

The quality of the scouting program is ultimately a sum total of the quality of all the leaders involved, both adult and youth.

 

Have fun scouting.

 

(This message has been edited by Aquila calva)

[Bob White]

Let me see if I have this right. You suspect that some members in your charter organization, that the charter organization selected and approved, stole from the CO. And that while you have told the police, there has been no conviction of these people for any crime (has there even been an arrest?), and you want the council to remove their national membership based on your accusations only. Otherwise you are going to sue them.

 

Is that about it?

 

And yes, I think attending training and learning about the charter organization role and responsibilities, as well as what the role and responsibilities of the council, would keep you and the other upset parents from believing that this is the Councils responsibility and not your own charter organization's.

 

IF, you were to go at this logically rather than emotionally what specific rule do you think the scout executive violated in the performance of his job? If you try to sue the council what specific responsibility of the council were they derelict in.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[dpicarelli]

I don't know how to make this any simpler The person was arrested and convicted once before for doing what we just turned evidence over to the police for doing to our oginization. and YES I understand the charter organization OKAYED this person to be the scout leader in their church. So now that that is clear the problem is the council was made aware of this and still let her be involved in another unit.It is very simple the arrest and plea bargain dates are prior to the theft here. And again according to the council she joined before they required a police back ground. but never mind she was just arrested for violating her probation from the last arrest one of the conditions of probation was to never be involved in a leadership or officer position in any orginization(assumably till her probation is complete...which it is not). so she sits in jail while our case is being investigated. Now since a time line can be proved and that council was notified and her membership should have been revoked AFTER her previous conviction they should be held liable which most likely a judge will decide in civil court. So I don't need to know how to get in touch with scout execs boss anymore this will most likely be my last post since in a matter of 2 days some of it is getting resolved and unlike other people with 8000 posts I have a troop and a Pack to run in the real world. thanks for your insights and opinions when this finally runs its final course i will give an update