Thinking out of the box

[Vicki]

Let's think about what the Council does, then think how it would work it the proposed scenario. Advancement reports - can be submitted online

 

Clothing - can be purchased online, however fitting it is really convenient (is that just for us female types? I know men have it a lot easier for civvie shirts and pants)

 

Tour permits - no reason those can't be online

 

Awards - hmmm, it's really nice to be able to go pick those up when Johnnie earns Star just before the COH but after you've received your online order. Could award pin until you get the patch though and stockpile pins.

 

Camping transactions - sometimes those get complicated (for what reason, I can't fathom, but they do)

 

I know I've missed something, and I sure would miss the relationships I've developed with a couple of the scout shop ladies, but I think it's possible.

 

Camp properties - now THAT's a tough one. Kind of like Illinois public schools - if you go to certain Chicago suburb districts, you're golden, because property taxes stay within the district. But it sure gets spotty elsewhere and those rich districts aren't about to share their properties. But what if a geographical priority camping list was developed? Those within certain geographical lines (think topo map lines) get priority for reservations? That is in place to some extent in our council - we have a gem that's really easy for the southern folks to get to but it's small. They get priority.

 

FOS would have to be tweaked a bit, but that's marketing. Those folks are (supposedly) paid to be flexible and creative.

 

Not to mention the turf wars as professionals lose their jobs.

 

As usual, it would appear the bureaucracy may be the main impediment. Some form of National would have to exist, but it could be greatly reduced (oops, there goes that overhead again).

 

Blue sky throwin' it out there,

Vicki (edited typo)

(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[Stosh]

I guess this may not qualify for Blue Sky anything but this is what my crew is doing at the present time. We are drawing kids from 4 different coucils at the present time. We have approached our local council to see if there is something that can be done so that it is a little more "official" than just signing up boys all over the place. If we get approval, we will have the possibility of having the first nationwide crew, at least on paper anyway. If not we will at least encompass up to 6-7 councils in the geographic area we will draw from.

 

By the way, our council has never refused to accept a boy's application even when the address shows him to be well out of council, and even well out of state.

 

Stosh

[GernBlansten]

Real Blue Sky stuff:

All scouting supplies go online, direct from National. Close the local scout shops or at least allow local retailers to carry the stuff.

All BSA properties are owned and managed by National.

All workers at BSA properties become employees of BSA National.

BSA National is funded by scouts, retail sales, donations and events.

 

Councils own nothing but a small office, are staffed by professionals and are paid for by scouts and local fundraising.

Councils are made up of 4 contiguous districts. Why 4? Because I said so!

Councils organize districts and hold council wide events.

Districts are made up of 42 units. Why 42? Because that is the answer to the universe. See HHGTTG.

Districts own nothing and are entirely staffed by volunteers. No expenses.

Districts organize units and hold district wide self supporting events.

If more units are created, districts sub-divide like cells. Likewise when units die, so do districts and councils.

 

Really no different than today, except all property becomes managed by National and the council/district alignments become more fluid with the changing demographics.

[evmori]

Almost everything could be on-line.

 

Ordering supplies & awards & other stuff the current Scout shops carry could be done on-line & delivered to a unit leaders house or the COR.

 

Summer camp reservations & other necessities could be done on-line.

 

Tour permits on-line.

 

This would take time to set up but once it is done, maintaining the on-line stuff is easy.

 

Maybe smaller councils is the way to go instead of larger. Bigger isn't always better.

 

Oh! One more Blue Sky thing - a new Hummer for all SM's!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[John-in-KC]

Ed,

 

You can have a hummer if you can afford the fuel...

[evmori]

John,

 

This is Blue Sky! Your council is picking up the gas tab!

[Bob White]

You can alread get almost every form on-line at the national website. Why has that not done away with councils if you see that as their primary purpose?

[John-in-KC]

I thought we were still brainstorming here, ...

 

It's the ability to fill in a form using a common electronic tool (a COMPUTER), to save it to a hard drive, to email it back into a service Center.

 

The fax machine is so 20th Century. Email with an attachment is faster and cheaper.

 

Think about it. We cna internet recharter, we can internet advance. Why can't we order a drop shipment of rank, MBs, etc online for either store pickup or if we want to pay the fees, delivery?

 

Of course, Supply Corporation only started selling uniforms online to begin with in the last two years.... well behind most other e-commerce businesses out there!

[Lauwit]

I'll admit that I probably don't have the level of experience that many of you have. But here's the noodle I'll throw on the wall to see if it sticks.

 

I see Councils providing: Training, Record Keeping, Permits, Scout Shops, OA Lodges, Pro Staff, and Camps and events. Some of that stuff, I know, is done on the District Level (Camporees etc.).

 

I think instead of merging councils, allowing Units to choose councils, making smaller Councils, etc. BSA should consolidate some of the services currently being replicated by Councils (Record Keeping, Permits, some Pro Staff, and maybe Scout Shops)to a National or Regional level.

 

I would think this would reduce the number of "support" staff needed by every council and free up funds to make better camps, events, unit services, etc. The remaining staff could spend more time developing better Unit support and a better program. The staff could concentrate on raising money for program enhancements and less on raising money for the payroll. I also think people are more apt to support BSA if they know their contributions are going to go directly to a better program.

 

I think if Councils could help Units to deliver a better program (our product) by providing better Camps, events, training opportunities, etc. we'd have more Scouts (our customers).

 

I'm not a huge fan of cutting jobs. But, I'm certain that BSA Councils are paying a bunch of people across the country to perform tasks that a computer and a smaller support staff could accomplish.

 

There's my noodle. Do you think it'll stick?

 

Lauwit

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

That not only makes a lot of sense but that appears to be the track that the BSA is already on.

[Vicki]

John, until they get to the point where it's a fill-in Acrobat form (not wedded to Acrobat but it's the only one I know out there in widespread use - any database GUI will do) I'm afraid all we're doing is replacing a frontoffice nightmare with a backoffice nightmare. In the former case, at least we are facing a person and can help fix the problem. In the latter case, we'd end up with a bureaucrat who "never got" our e-mail with its attachment.

 

But that is where the 21st century is heading. Heck, the IRS can do it!

 

Vicki (edited for typo)(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[eisely]

Replying to one of BW's earlier points:

 

Towns and other political subdivisions are creatures of the state government. Since political entities actually exercise sovereignty, political entities have to be defined on geography among other things. There is no compelling reason that council functions have to be organized geographically as exclusive franchises from BSA national. It is just one way of organizing things.

 

One other thing I see left out of this discussion is who deals with the chartered organizations? It seems to me that scouting depends very highly on the interest and resources of chartered organizations, even though many of us experience frequent frustration with our COs. Assuming that there will continue to be such things as chartered organizations, who deals with that? Right now that is the responsibility of the council. There likely is much that goes on in the background that unit level volunteers never see. Would all unit charters also flow from national?

 

[evmori]

OK that's it!

 

For those not thinking out of the box, please put your lid back on your box so the rest of us can get on with the discussion! You know who you are & if I list your name here it will only get whacked!

 

Back to Blue Sky!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

What I posted about Councils would have the choice of not taking units that they might not want was intended as a joke.

But..

For a moment let's pretend I'm the Council President (A volunteer)

Troop 666 wants to join the Council I'm serving.

I call a meeting of the "Application Committee"

I see from the very long application form, that Troop 666 has never supported any Council they have been in.

Membership is weak.

The adults have never taken training and the very long form shows that they think all this training stuff is a bunch of balderdash.

I'm a little worried about accepting this Troop so I call the person listed as being the CO Executive Officer. When I ask him about the Troop? His answer is "What Troop?"

I'm now really worried so I visit the Council President of the Council that Troop 666 was with.

We chat for a while, mainly small talk and then I ask him about Troop 666.

He rolls his eyes and informs me that the best thing that ever happened was when the let their charter with the Council run out!! He was pleased to see them go and there is no way that they would ever be allowed to return.

I present my findings to the Application Committee and they vote not to accept Troop 666.

The Scoutmaster is very upset.

He informs me that they need a Council! He knows that the Council they just left is going to have him or the Troop back!!

He pleads to be accepted by the Council I serve, he makes a point of telling me that he did spent a long time working on the very long Application Form and spent $2.86 of his own money to mail it to me.

I say thanks but no thanks.

I feel sorry for him and suggest he might try the Trans-Atlantic Council! He reminds me that we are in Pennsylvania!!

Eamonn.

[John-in-KC]

Vicki,

 

BINGO!!!!

 

I've used all manner of GUI based form engines. Army's been using them in one form or another for almost 15 years.

 

BSA has simply put blanks for the typewriter on the shelf. What a crock of excrement, it stinks!

 

For three years EagleSon and I have taken the Council staff app, snapshotted it, copied it into the master of a powerpoint slide, and then built text boxes as needed. At least we can save the %%%% form.

 

Tonight I got told a horror story by a SM friend. He's got a kid who has had his name wrong in ScoutNet for 3 years. This year they tried changing it at Internet recharter. Well, yes, you're working with ScoutNet, but apparently the Registrar opens your data in one pane, the existing Troop data in another pane, validates the BSA numbers, selects all on the existing pane and PRINT.

 

I told him (he's a 4 digit family and 5 digit community FOS donor)... hold your donation hostage to getting the name right. It'll happen in about 5 minutes